vee belt information

[split tenth]

I need a vee belt for a 9 inch horizontal drive South Bend lathe.C1670R 4.5 foot bed 13670KAR8, Part number and size.Thank anyone for any information.

 

[packrat2]

Do you have the old belt.? If not go to McMaster-Carr's page and look up V-belt information it will tell you how to measure for a new belt..Hope this helps soom..

 

[SteveM]

If you have the old one, any auto parts store worth a damn can get you a replacement.

If you have a shop that does lawn mowers and other power equipment nearby, they might be able to as well.

Steve

 

[michiganbuck]

likely you can't go by the model's original belt because someone may have replaced a pulley.

how to measure for a v belt with no belt - Bing video

www.bing.com

 

[swells]

I need a vee belt for a 9 inch horizontal drive South Bend lathe.C1670R 4.5 foot bed 13670KAR8, Part number and size.Thank anyone for any information.

Your lathe is a 10K(Light Ten) not a Workshop 9-inch by the Catalog Number(CL670R and the serial number, it's a 1968 HMD with a flat belt cone drive, so I can assume you need a motor to counter shaft pulley v-belt. They didn't list the numbers as specific to the lathe most of the time.
The SBL v-belt part numbers are listed by length and width. For example, if you measure around the top of motor pulley and the counter shaft pulley and it's 31 inches, and the top of the motor pulley is 1/2-inch inside width, the part number is CE4L310. A 4L belt is 1/2-inch wide.
loosen the motor/ belt adjustment bolts first before measuring, so your new belt will have all the tension adjustment. 1/2-inch deflection in center of the belt is the correct tension.
3L belts are 3/8 wide, 5L belts are 5/8 wide.
Cross the length and width to a 3L, 4L or 5L belt supplier.
South Bend Motor V-belt part numbers circa 1968:
3L:
CE3L210 - 21-inch
CE3L220 - 22-inch
CE3L230 - 23-inch
CE3L240 - 24-inch
CE3L260 - 26-inch
CE3L270 - 27-inch
4L:
CE4L280 - 28-inch
CE4L290 - 29-inch
CE4L300 - 30-inch
CE4L310 - 31-inch
CE4L320 - 32-inch
CE4L440 - 44-inch
CE4L450 - 45-inch
CE4L460 - 46-inch
CE4L470 - 47-inch
CE4L480 - 48-inch
CE4L490 - 49-inch
CE4L530 - 53-inch
CE4L540 - 54-inch
CE4L580 - 58-inch
CE4L600 - 60-inch
CE4L640 - 64-inch
CE4L700 - 70-inch
CE4L800 - 80-inch
5L:
CE5L360 - 36-inch
CE5L400 - 40-inch
CE5L410 - 41-inch
CE5L420 - 42-inch
CE5L430 - 43-inch
CE5L440 - 44-inch
CE5L450 - 45-inch
CE5L460 - 46-inch
CE5L470 - 47-inch
CE5L490 - 49-inch
CE5L500 - 50-inch
CE5L510 - 51-inch
CE5L520 - 52-inch
CE5L550 - 55-inch

hope that helps,
Steve

 

[rons]

likely you can't go by the model's original belt because someone may have replaced a pulley.

how to measure for a v belt with no belt - Bing video

www.bing.com

You get what you pay for on that garage shop stuff.

This is the way to do it:

Pulley Calculator. RPM, Belt Length, Speed, Animated Diagrams - Inch

Visually Calculate Pulley Size, RPM, Belt Length and Speed wwith Animated Scaled Diagrams - Inch

www.blocklayer.com

Then you have to decide what type it is and if you need metric and/or cogged.
Metric sizes have a height that is a little more than classical belts.
Like for Type A:
Classical:
Width = 0.5 Height = 5/16 (.312)

Metric:
Width = 13mm (.511) Height = 10mm (.393)

The outside circumference is not going to be a direct part number.
For a simple conventional type A V-belt it might be specified as A68.
The 68 means the datum length of 68 inches, the circumference of a radius within the belt.
The outside circumference would be 70 inches.

 

[rons]

EPDM - Ethylene Propylene Diene Monomer
Synthetic rubber. Supposed to last longer.

I looked at a standard rubber V-belt recently. Returning back to it's individual elements.
Carlisle, Gates, Browning...
Carlisle has EPDM. A AX69MS (cogged,EPDM) costs $1.90 more than a AX69(cogged, rubber).

I looked at some pulley's and their depth is 0.500". Yet a Gates guy say's that a belt with a 5/16 (0.312) depth will work.
Well, I know that. A metric belt with depth 10mm (0.393) is going to touch more pulley wall.???

A cogged belt will subtract from what is touching the pulley wall. But it can better bend easier.

Decisions.....

 

[swells]

You get what you pay for on that garage shop stuff.

This is the way to do it:

Pulley Calculator. RPM, Belt Length, Speed, Animated Diagrams - Inch

Visually Calculate Pulley Size, RPM, Belt Length and Speed wwith Animated Scaled Diagrams - Inch

www.blocklayer.com

Then you have to decide what type it is and if you need metric and/or cogged.
Metric sizes have a height that is a little more than classical belts.
Like for Type A:
Classical:
Width = 0.5 Height = 5/16 (.312)

Metric:
Width = 13mm (.511) Height = 10mm (.393)

The outside circumference is not going to be a direct part number.
For a simple conventional type, A V-belt it might be specified as A68.
The 68 means the datum length of 68 inches, the circumference of a radius within the belt.
The outside circumference would be 70 inches.

I was trying to answer the OP's question...hence the part numbers. I'll correct you on L belts, Most of South Bend's belt part numbers that were 3, 4 and 5L for the year of his lathe did reference the belt OC, as in the examples I gave. I was trying to give enough info so as he could measure the belt and choose a belt length nearest to the listed numbers. I'll go a little farther...and be a little more specific, but I can't measure his pulley sizes or his belt length as you stated, therefore I'm hesitant to suggest a belt length for him. That being said, the 10K he has is a 12 speed, so it has the style 2A two speed pulleys. The most common pulley for the 670 was PT2131NR1, there were more than one. We all know the trick of replacing the drive pulleys with a 50 hertz one to get a little more speed, but the later models' common pulleys were 2.237 / 3.956 OD's, they all were 0.635 ID width at the top. That means in their part numbers it was a 5L belt. Now here's where he needs to get the accurate measurement, the most common belt listed in my sn files is a 5L430, and since 5L belts are measured from their OC, it's a 43-inch belt. But that's not the only belt they used. I did find a lathe close to his serial number (1968) that listed a 5L440, which of course is 44-inches and was the common belt used on the Workshop 9-inch since the early 1950's. In some older lathe specs. I found a 5L380 for a C model, which had the same 2131NR1 pulley and a 1950 with a non "L" number 3380, then a 57 with a 4538 with the same pulley. So, the range is too far apart to suggest a length. Back to belts, I do think it would be easier for him to try to get the best OC measurement he can with let's say a seamstress tape and see which belt length is the closest. after that he can deduct the 3-inches and order a "B" belt if he would want to improve the power transfer. If he had the serial card, it has the belt number listed on it for cross reference, but I would still go by the OC of an "L" measurement to determine the length because it has flat pulleys on the counter shaft, then compare the specs to a B belt with the same OC measurement.
You can use this site to search 5L belt numbers and compare the specs, most of the replacement numbers are B belts. if the belt depth is closer to 0.4375 it's a B belt, or if closer to 0.375, it's an L belt, this has to be considered with the flat pulleys on the counter shaft.
an L belt will be looser not having the same depth. If he measures without the belt on the counter shaft large pulley, he will need to add about 0.880 to the belt length, that should get him close.

B41/5L440 Classic V-Belt

B41/5L440 Classic V-Belt Original Equipment Manufacturer Heavy Duty VBG Replacement OEM Part Number B41/5L440 Belt Type Classic VBG Replacement Id VBG25914 Technical Specifications: (Inches) (mm) Outside Circumference 44 1117.6 Top Width 0.66 16.764 Belt Depth 0.44 11.176 Ribs Single Belt...

www.vbeltguys.com

Steve

 

[Strostkovy]

When I'm measuring for a belt, I get the OD of the first pulley, and divide by two to get the radius. I then take a 1/2" or 5/8" gauge block to measure the distance from the OD of the pulley to the OD of the new belt. Then subtract the thickness of the belt (5/16 for A I think, but it's published data) to get the inside radius of the belt. V belts for some dumb reason go by inner diameter, not by datum diameter, even though the actual ratio of speeds is by datum diameter.
Anyway, do that for the second pulley, and get the OC dimension of the pulley shafts.
From there you can do a bunch of math, but I just draw it up in cad and measure the result.
You generally won't need to be this accurate, but sometimes you are repairing some dumb design where there is a quarter inch of idler adjustment each way and you don't want to buy 7 belts, each a slightly different length.

 

[rons]

Drink some coffee before looking...

V-belt pitch length and datum length

V-belt pitch length and datum length are often used interchangeably, but for some belts and sheaves, they are not equivalent.

www.linearmotiontips.com

 

[rons]

You generally won't need to be this accurate, but sometimes you are repairing some dumb design where there is a quarter inch of idler adjustment each way and you don't want to buy 7 belts, each a slightly different length.

I have to deal with that because a old heavy motor is sitting on a mount with slots. The motor is wide that there is not much space for the
motor tension device, that is the motor footprint takes up a lot of slot mounting space. Getting the right belt is a matter of going with belt A
or belt B, which is the next step (1") up.

 

[swells]

The problem would be if he doesn't have an old 5L belt and has to measure around the the flat pulley, he has to allow for that extra 0.750
belt diameter at that pulley. So if the known 5L belt is 44-inches OC, then the B belt IC is 3-inches less than that, so he would order a B belt with a 41 inch
IC. As rons stated, that the easy way to select it, using the A=2, B=3, C=4, D=5, E=6. it's not an exact number. The mathematical reduction equation is Outside Circumference, Divided by Pi, which equals the Diameter, Subtracted by the belt Height, Multiplied by Two, Multiplied By Pi. (and not exact)
as an example a 4L belt, 25-inchs OC vs an A belt IC as your example :
25 (Inch Outside Circumference) divided by 3.14 (PI) = 7.962 (Inch Outside Diameter). 7.962 (Inch Outside Diameter) – 0.625 (Profile Height of 0.3125 Inch * 2) = 7.337 (Inch Inside Diameter). 7.337 Inches (Inch Inside Diameter) * 3.14 (PI) = 23.04 (Inch Inside Circumference). 25 (Inch Outside Circumference) – 23.04 (Inch Inside Circumference) = 1.96 Inch Reduction From Outside Circumference to Inside Circumference.
That's pretty close to 2-inchs.
If he doesn't have a belt and allows for the increase in diameter of the flat pulley from 10-inchs to 10.750( the 5L belt height x 2) he should be able to tell
what OC is closest to the SBL belt number right? regardless of if it's 43 or 44. just my thoughts, I might be wrong...lol.

Steve

 

[rons]

I have been looking at V belts in the brands Gates and Carlisle.
Deciding if a cogged V belt will grip less than a solid V belt?
Is synthetic rubber better than real rubber?
A metric belt has more height than a normal height size, go for metric and get more gripping surface?

Adjustable ???

Accu-Link Adjustable Link V-Belt, 4L or A Profile, 1/2" Width, 4ft Length: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Accu-Link Adjustable Link V-Belt, 4L or A Profile, 1/2" Width, 4ft Length: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

Used one of these on a band saw. Last I looked the red adjustable was not there anymore. Must have given it away.

 

[Strostkovy]

I have been looking at V belts in the brands Gates and Carlisle.
Deciding if a cogged V belt will grip less than a solid V belt?
Is synthetic rubber better than real rubber?
A metric belt has more height than a normal height size, go for metric and get more gripping surface?

Adjustable ???

Accu-Link Adjustable Link V-Belt, 4L or A Profile, 1/2" Width, 4ft Length: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Accu-Link Adjustable Link V-Belt, 4L or A Profile, 1/2" Width, 4ft Length: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

Used one of these on a band saw. Last I looked the red adjustable was not there anymore. Must have given it away.

You'll get better grip with a cogged V belt on a small diameter pulley. Otherwise , there isn't much of a performance difference.
I have not personally tried different materials.
Just pick a standard belt anyone can get, and then write the size inside the belt cover or on the pulley. Gripping surface for same pulley size just reduces the gripping pressure, so I'm not convinced there will be a performance improvement, but you could run into slip if the angles aren't correct, or if the belt contacts the inner surface of the groove or extends out past the OD.

The key to keeping your belts happy is to keep them properly tensioned, aligned, and free of oil or grit.

 

[rons]

You'll get better grip with a cogged V belt on a small diameter pulley. Otherwise , there isn't much of a performance difference.

I would like to know at what pulley ratio to start considering cogged. 3 to 1, 4 ro 1?

 

[Strostkovy]

I would like to know at what pulley ratio to start considering cogged. 3 to 1, 4 ro 1?

It's not the ratio that matters, but the diameter of the pulleys. V belts are sometimes too stiff to wrap around the pulley and end up with a false sense of tension and uneven pressure around the pulley

 

[swells]

It's not the ratio that matters, but the diameter of the pulleys. V belts are sometimes too stiff to wrap around the pulley and end up with a false sense of tension and uneven pressure around the pulley

I agree, the cog belt has more flexibility with a smaller pulley and transmits more power in that case.

 

[rons]

I agree, the cog belt has more flexibility with a smaller pulley and transmits more power in that case.

It's not the ratio that matters, but the diameter of the pulleys. V belts are sometimes too stiff to wrap around the pulley and end up with a false sense of tension and uneven pressure around the pulley

Since I'm here and you are not, I was looking at my setup of 3 to 1 (6in to 18in diameter). Distance between them is 16in.
Smaller the distance and less contact on the small pulley.

I'm comparing belts here.

V-Belts - MROSupply.com

Our V-Belts products

www.mrosupply.com

 

[Strostkovy]

Since I'm here and you are not, I was looking at my setup of 3 to 1 (6in to 18in diameter). Distance between them is 16in.
Smaller the distance and less contact on the small pulley.

I'm comparing belts here.

V-Belts - MROSupply.com

Our V-Belts products

www.mrosupply.com

IIRC cogged belts have the same strength and horsepower ratings as regular belts so I pretty much always buy those unless I have a compelling reason not to.

 

[rons]

IIRC cogged belts have the same strength and horsepower ratings as regular belts so I pretty much always buy those unless I have a compelling reason not to.

Metric cogged belts have the most sidewall area. They are deeper by 0.083 when new. And they are .011 wider at the top when looking at side view.