Very late best condition upgraded FP4NC ever?

[Martin P]

Thankfully too far away (near Slovenian border with Austria).

Deckel FP4 NC Dialog 12

Verkaufe meine Deckel FP4 NC aus Platz und Zeitgründen. Nach längerer Standzeit hat Maschine hat...,Deckel FP4 NC Dialog 12 in Bayern - Bad Reichenhall

www.kleinanzeigen.de

Bad and irrelevant pictures, but this is a pre-1991/92 FP4NC, so not the last year. It has a Dialog 12 sticker on it, which was not available then. So I presume it was upgraded, but without all the D12 HW changes (hand wheel, pendant, op panel, UVV). Interesting that this is possible, but I suspected it. I do not know the objective benefits of such upgrade. Supposedly speed, but who cares? This machine is advertised to come from a lab. I believe it. Look at the broom and shovel attached to table inside enclosure and the paint condition next to it.
It is stated to be broken from sitting too long. Sounds typical, one will have to invest 30€ into batteries (or charge them). If voltage is below 3.1 Volt, it will not boot.

 

[Martin P]

Machine was sold to forum member in Switzerland.......
He is not responding to my PMs....
Come on Patrick, pictures!

 

[DeadMahoDude]

Well, had to get everything covered from the damn rain and was awake since 5 in the morning, couldn't sleep, because I wasn't sure, about wether a big forklift would be available for unloading.

Then, diesel engine of excavator wouldn't start, to get it off the driveway, likely too cold, that night.

Finally, after I got everything sorted out, unloaded, covered, I had a good nap.

Machine is safely covered under 3 layers of tarp from rain and dumped some oil over ways, will put it next to my Maho 700P during weekend, without rain, hopefully ;-)

 

[Martin P]

Is this indeed number 513?
That would make it very very late.
Hugely interesting machine and in that condition it should be treasured like a Schaublin 160 in same condition. Oddly its not. Good for you!
Do keep us posted. I am considering to do the same conversion, simply because I have almost 2 complete D12 controls.
I presume the SPS EPROMS must be very special because the machine is a one-of.
The closet series production machine with D12 probably is the FP3-50.

 

[DeadMahoDude]

Yes, 2838-0513, my other Dialog11-FP4NC is a 2838-02xx, I think, plate is towards a wall, currently, so I can't check exact numbers.

Ways are hardened and in perfect condition, like my other FP4NC.
Only machine with soft ways is the white D4/FP3NC from 1993, with botched "paintjob" from FPS. Worst Deckel I bought so far, stay away from white FPS stuff!
Not sure wether ways were left soft to cut cost or FPS ground them down below hardened during "rebuild".

 

[j-holland]

Yes, 2838-0513, my other Dialog11-FP4NC is a 2838-02xx, I think, plate is towards a wall, currently, so I can't check exact numbers.

Ways are hardened and in perfect condition, like my other FP4NC.
Only machine with soft ways is the white D4/FP3NC from 1993, with botched "paintjob" from FPS. Worst Deckel I bought so far, stay away from white FPS stuff!
Not sure wether ways were left soft to cut cost or FPS ground them down below hardened during "rebuild".

what method do you use to determine way hardness?
what was factory spec on FP4 way hardness?

 

[AlfaGTA]

Don’t have a number, not really tested a late machine, but when I was reworking my late FP3NC the vertical box ways were hard enough that they could not be scraped.
Carbide blade scrapers either power or hand would make some scratches on the surfaces, but absolutely would not cut any material, grinding was the only option.
My guess is the surface was in the high 50’s
Cheers Ross

 

[AlfaGTA]

what method do you use to determine way hardness?
what was factory spec on FP4 way hardness?

There are file kits made to test hardness.

SPI Hardness Testing File Set - 98-720-6

Offering a huge selection of industrial tool sales online. Find over 100,000 metalworking products, precision measuring tools, power tools & accessories.

www.penntoolco.com

The files are made to have different material penetration rates and a scale that rates the hardness of each file.
One could use a Schore tester, they don’t use the depth of penetration like Rockwell or Brinell so a test does not have to get to both sides of the tested element.

Rare Vintage Shore Scleroscope, Hardness Tester, Shore Instrument | eBay

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0;">Experience the history of Shore Instruments with this vintage Scleroscope Hardness Tester. Made by the renowned brand Shore, this rare piece is a must-have for any collector or enthusiast. With its unique design and precision testing...

www.ebay.com

 

[thanvg]

what method do you use to determine way hardness?

If it were mine, I'd use my portable hardness tester



Not perfect, but it would work I guess.

BR,
Thanos

 

[zephyrous]

Deckel started hardening Z ways somewhere between '85-'86. Of course Germans where ingenious and even in late 80's made some machines with older surpus castings and sold them domestically as "economic" models in much lower prices.Short of the late FPA/D11 line. As Ross stated, the hardness in late 80's models is 450-500HB, and the only refreshing touch they can get is regrinding(obviously with much less life span).
Talking about ways...Watch out these days when buying machines online that look like bargains, cause maybe there is a "wannabe scraper" enthusiast behind the sale and unfortunatelly a not so well done project...

 

[Mud]

Not sure wether ways were left soft to cut cost or FPS ground them down below hardened during "rebuild".

I drilled a hole through the Z way on a junk FP3NC. It was hard the whole way through, very hard!

 

[Gloryrates500]

A very good and non-destructive device is the Krautkraemer Microdur M1.
It measures the hardness according to the UCI method, is portable and can be used anywhere without any problems.
The probe is calibrated on a reference sample of the material to be tested.
You then place the probe on the surface to be tested and you can read the value on the display directly in HV or HRC.
This is often found on eBay

Here is a link with a picture of the system

Check Out The GE Krautkramer MicroDur Portable UCI Hardness Tester

Used GE Krautkramer MicroDur Hardness Tester Package***INCLUDES:GE MicroDur Hardness TesterLeather Case for MicroDur Instrument(5) Rechargeable C-NiCad Batteries (Installed)Battery Charger 115v ACMIC101 Motorized ProbeProbe CableHRC 65.3 Rockwell BlockLeather Carrying Bag for PackageISO17025...

www.bergeng.com

 

[Gloryrates500]

Here in the foreground the system can be seen in a holder.

 

[Mud]

There's also the Ames testers. They can be used in any position, and come in different sizes. I have a 12" unit that I occasionally use to test bars on the steel rack.

 

[rimcanyon]

I have a hardness tester that works by measuring the height a ball bearing bounces. Not sure of the physics behind it, but it works pretty well. Ways need to be flat and horizontal though.

 

[???]

If it were mine, I'd use my portable hardness tester

View attachment 426293

Not perfect, but it would work I guess.

BR,
Thanos

What’s the brand of that hardness tester Thanos.

 

[AlfaGTA]

I have a hardness tester that works by measuring the height a ball bearing bounces. Not sure of the physics behind it, but it works pretty well. Ways need to be flat and horizontal though.

That’s the Shore system. Used rebound height to scale hardness.
See link above.
Cheers Ross

 

[thanvg]

What’s the brand of that hardness tester Thanos.

Istrumatic

Here you are https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...4QFnoECBcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3GOvj668Sbg_kGeQg5puDF