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Vetting potential employees

triumph406

Titanium
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Location
ca
You should really, REALLY think twice about what you're putting on the internet. Do you not realize that if anyone in the future complains to a lawyer that you discriminated against them, you just full-on admitted guilt in your above post.

The internet is not anonymous boys. Think.

I'm a one man shop, and will always be a one man shop, so hiring ANYBODY is not on the cards.
 

john.k

Diamond
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Location
Brisbane Qld Australia
Guys I used to work for hired the dead set worst employees its possible to imagine......consistently.......one guy had a crap degree ,which impressed them ,in his first week he set fire to about $10k worth of work.....I caught him trying to set the paint store on fire.......he s got a degree ,we need management potential.
 

john.k

Diamond
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Location
Brisbane Qld Australia
Nope.he was accidentally on purpose applying a lighter to various objects because the light inside the paint shed was insufficient to read MSDS...or so he claimed........in the previous incident he claimed to be warming up a piece of plastic tube,which just happened to contain epoxy thinner.........set fire to a rubber lining job that was being rushed thru......he also smashed the gas bottle off a forklift ,which somehow caught on fire with a crowd of his supporters watching.
 

ttrager

Aluminum
Joined
Jul 23, 2015
Location
East Side / Detroit
I don’t mind talking shop and answering some questions, but at this stage in my career if someone asks me to take a math test and a bunch of other nonsense I’m going to politely tell them to eat my ass.
I don't really understand this.

If you are at a job interview it is presumed you need a job. Given that, the potential employer is of great value to you, so answering a few "annoying" questions is so small in comparison it's a non-issue.

Where I'm at the Inspector's Test, as example, states the Test isn't an arbitrary measure for hire/no-hire, but lets everyone know how to judge the amount of on-the-job training required, if any.

What that means is the Test is a win-win for everyone, and the interviewer is free to use the Test as much or as little as needed. It's not intended to annoy a (truly) experienced machinist, but is the mechanism illustrating where the weaknesses of an inexperienced person are before that has to be discovered, sometimes painfully, by your current people getting work done.

The Test shouldn't be asking what was the capitol of Idaho in 1785. It should only ask basic questions that an applicant will be answering for themselves every day at the job position. They will ALREADY be answering those questions on the job. If they "can't" answer a question that's just an opportunity to fill in with some Training before that person drops that on one of your existing guys who's been around for years trying to get his own work done.

Last thoughts: I'm not trying to force my viewpoint on anyone here. I've heard the opinions "some people just don't like tests", and I've seen that on the job. All I'm saying is a couple of things: 1) If you go into it on the front end believing tests are a waste, then you are right, that's what those are then. 2) Writing Tests and performing them can be done well or poorly, like anything else. I believe in doing them well, and seeing them used properly, as opposed to a blind approach that's done poorly. 3) It's always about benefit, not about negativity. A test is a tool, use it for the right reasons. All you want to do is have a more objective way of identifying if someone actually knows what they are doing before you drop that person on the most valuable assets in your company: Your existing (proven) guys.

And if you get an applicant you know is experienced, or, for whatever reason, feel is experienced and you don't need to bother, then don't use the Test.

But, as a tool, failing some pretty clear indications the test doesn't need to be used . . . use the tool. It should only be asking what the person will already be expected to put into practice at the position, peeling material the company has paid for.

Taking a test has no chance of producing a scrap part or failing a delivery.

Anyway, thanks for the patience in reading, and the courtesy of the replies back and forth in this thread given the differences in opinions and experience.

That, all by itself, is the value of forums like these.
 
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michiganbuck

Diamond
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Location
Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
I suspect that some people are looking for an employer who asks personal questions that might lead to a law suite.

Q: Do you have any hobbies
A: Yes, I sue employers who ask the wrong questions and then don't hire me.

*This suggests that nowadays it would be good to keep a log book as to why you did not hire each applicant.

The test question
What is more important?
1 looking nice
2. packing a nutritious lunch
3. getting to work at the correct time
 
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jaguar36

Cast Iron
Joined
May 13, 2015
Location
SE, PA
Interviewing is a completely different skill set than most
I suspect that some people are looking for an employer who asks personal questions that might lead to a law suite.

Q: Do you have any hobbies
A: Yes, I sue employers who ask the wrong questions and then don't hire me.

*This suggests that nowadays it would be good to keep a log book as to why you did not hire each applicant.

This is absolutely a good idea. Regardless of how you vett potential hires, understand the discrimination laws and keep good brief notes on why you do or do not hire people.
 

michiganbuck

Diamond
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Location
Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
There was a study conducted on highering criteria and it showed that one PR person would never higher a person wearing anything red, like a shirt, tie, dress, or the like.
Go figure on that, other things were mentioned but the color one is the one I remember.
I have a niece who is the PR, highering person for a big multi-national company but I have never talked to her about her job.
 

michiganbuck

Diamond
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Location
Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
I guess it might be good to tell a potential new higher that he/ she /what may be on occasion be asked to do other tasks than the job description..just to try to cover all bases.

I don't know what the bathroom rules are nowadays. You may get in trouble for not letting the guys use the ladies' room /// or you might get in trouble for letting the guys use the ladies' room...or you might get in trouble for not having an "other" and a "family" bathroom.
 
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10 fingers

Hot Rolled
Joined
Mar 9, 2003
Location
Vermont
I suspect that some people are looking for an employer who asks personal questions that might lead to a law suite.

Q: Do you have any hobbies
A: Yes, I sue employers who ask the wrong questions and then don't hire me.

*This suggests that nowadays it would be good to keep a log book as to why you did not hire each applicant.

The test question
What is more important?
1 looking nice
2. packing a nutritious lunch
3. getting to work at the correct time
Vermont is a Right To Work state. If I don't like the way you look, or who you endorse, you'll never be hired. That's what interviews are for.
Rest assured, in Vermont there are some hideously stupid candidates that offer an outstanding barometer of applicant judgement skills.
 

Halcyon

Plastic
Joined
Jul 17, 2022
I just want to throw this out there because I haven't seen it mentioned yet;

CHECK SOCIAL MEDIA PROFILES. You can get a pretty good "unfiltered" look at people this way. Not the polished facade they may be wanting to present at the interview. Are they a mongoloid who shares Minion memes? An incel future mass shooter who's going to stalk female coworkers? Or maybe they post something every 20 minutes, showing that they're hopelessly addicted to wasting their time(and your money).
 

huleo

Hot Rolled
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Location
UT
I just want to throw this out there because I haven't seen it mentioned yet;

CHECK SOCIAL MEDIA PROFILES. You can get a pretty good "unfiltered" look at people this way. Not the polished facade they may be wanting to present at the interview. Are they a mongoloid who shares Minion memes? An incel future mass shooter who's going to stalk female coworkers? Or maybe they post something every 20 minutes, showing that they're hopelessly addicted to wasting their time(and your money).
That's actually a very good point and one I need to mentally reinforce. I realize some have settings in a way that I may not see much, but you make good points. I know people that post on FB CONSTANTLY! I will tolerate none of it. the phone thing is going to get addressed. I think it is a problem everywhere. I want to find some middle ground. This is another reason I won't allow pics/video in the workplace.

I also agree with the single unisex bathroom. I cannot say I have ever hired anyone with gender confusion, but this seems the easiest way to deal with it. I don't think this will be a big matter, though people here are certainly making it out to be one.

I will say I believe myself to be fair and ethical. The one word I carry through the shop is "professional". I have zero issue with women in the workplace. I know first hand that their attention to detail can be an asset. I also know some men AND women seem to think the workplace can be a sexual/social playground. I have zero tolerance for it. It can create all sorts of internal conflicts all the way to lawsuits. I want to ensure women feel safe from all of this in my workplace. I think I shocked my boss and business owner 25yrs ago when I told our secretary to wear appropriate clothing. Sure, we all appreciate some nice assets, but as I assume a new leadership role, I won't allow any of it. Outside the workplace? I just don't care. I don't allow tank tops or sleeveless shirts. Why? Because on any given day, we can have customers in and I want to make a professional impression.

Sexual misconduct seems to be quite the trend in the workplace. Especially with higher level staff. I will drive a hard line between business and personal life. I just don't need any of that drama at work. Clock out and go have fun!
 

triumph406

Titanium
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Location
ca
There's also the moral/ethical values of potential hires to consider.

Case in point a VERY good young engineer I know has been hired at one of the largest Aerospace companies in SoCal. I asked him what he's going to be working on.

"Don't know, I just hope it isn't anything to do with military hardware"
"Where are you starting?"
"Palmdale"
"Eer, they don't do any civilian work in Palmdale, if you get your security clearance, you will be working on military hardware"
"I hope not"
"Probably should have considered that before you accepted the job"


Now I assume in the interview process the company should have asked whether he had any moral obligations to what he might be working on. I'm sure their not allowed to however.

So when he finds out he doesn't want to do the work, or they find out he didn't want to do the work it's going to be a massive waste of everybodies time.
 

triumph406

Titanium
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Location
ca
A very close friend of mine does a lot of legal work for the LGB community in LA. Thru him I've been to a lot of parties and met a lot of the LGB community, I venture to guess probably more than most here.

You think my views of the trans community are out of line? Should listen to the LGB community, their definately not fans of the trans community. It's only recently that the LG community have started to embrace the Bi community, so it's not as if it's one big homogeneous community under the rainbow flag. It isn't.


If you have more than maybe 10 employees, almost 100% chance one of them will be L or G or B. The reason you don't know is they mostly just get on with life, at least the ones i know. You get a young trans employee, well your going to get probably somebody who isn't going to ask that you use their pronouns, their going to demand it. Their going to demand special consideration. (why their not popular with the LGB community) What happens if they expect everybody in the company to use their pronouns in their e-mail signature? It's all fun and games until it gets divisive.
 

10 fingers

Hot Rolled
Joined
Mar 9, 2003
Location
Vermont
There's also the moral/ethical values of potential hires to consider.

Case in point a VERY good young engineer I know has been hired at one of the largest Aerospace companies in SoCal. I asked him what he's going to be working on.

"Don't know, I just hope it isn't anything to do with military hardware"
"Where are you starting?"
"Palmdale"
"Eer, they don't do any civilian work in Palmdale, if you get your security clearance, you will be working on military hardware"
"I hope not"
"Probably should have considered that before you accepted the job"


Now I assume in the interview process the company should have asked whether he had any moral obligations to what he might be working on. I'm sure their not allowed to however.

So when he finds out he doesn't want to do the work, or they find out he didn't want to do the work it's going to be a massive waste of everybodies time.
I had a very similar debacle. From time to time we are subcontracted to cut gears or splines for a major, helicopter manufacturer. When flying parts are in process we operate in a much tightened mode of redundant setup inspections using premium inspection instruments. A new hire detailed that being a Jehovah's Witness he could not participate in the manufacture of military hardware. I explained these same parts could equally be used in medevac helicopters saving hundreds of lives. The employee was distressed and quit. Too bad. He was a nice guy with talent for the trade. Want to guess the chances I'll ever hire another Jehovah's Witness?
 

huleo

Hot Rolled
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Location
UT
A very close friend of mine does a lot of legal work for the LGB community in LA. Thru him I've been to a lot of parties and met a lot of the LGB community, I venture to guess probably more than most here.

You think my views of the trans community are out of line? Should listen to the LGB community, their definately not fans of the trans community. It's only recently that the LG community have started to embrace the Bi community, so it's not as if it's one big homogeneous community under the rainbow flag. It isn't.


If you have more than maybe 10 employees, almost 100% chance one of them will be L or G or B. The reason you don't know is they mostly just get on with life, at least the ones i know. You get a young trans employee, well your going to get probably somebody who isn't going to ask that you use their pronouns, their going to demand it. Their going to demand special consideration. (why their not popular with the LGB community) What happens if they expect everybody in the company to use their pronouns in their e-mail signature? It's all fun and games until it gets divisive.
Pronouns?? Yeah, we don't do those here. We utilize the probationary clause to terminate inside 90days for no reason at all..... Not dealing with it. People can flame and threaten here all they want, our attorneys have spoken. I think some people don't realize I have discretion of who I hire, and I don't have to disclose my reasons to anyone. I don't care if your atty shows up asking questions, they won't get answers.
 

michiganbuck

Diamond
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Location
Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
I have a niece who is a man want-to-be. She tries to look like a man and seems to often have a chip on her(his ) shoulder. One of the relatives said she had her breasts removed(?). She is not easy to talk to so likely I would not want her working for me.
I knew gay guys and gay girls back in the day and they did not go around bosting their sexuality in every sentence, nowadays it seems that has to be the main topic.
One gay girl knew called the cops saying her husband was coming home from the bar to beat her up (a lie) so she could spend a week with her girl fried. I was asked to pick him up from jail for work release. I think he got two weeks in county jail / might have had some unpaid tickets.
 
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huleo

Hot Rolled
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Location
UT
I have a niece who is a man want-to-be. She tries to look like a man and seems to often have a chip on her(his ) shoulder. Oneofvtherelitives said she had her breasts removed(?). She is not easy to talk to so likely I would not want her working for me.
I knew gay guys and gay girls back in the day and they did not go around bosting their sexuality in every sentence, nowadays it seems that has to be the main topic.
One gay girl knew called the cops saying her husband was coming home from the bar to beat her up (a lie) so she could spend a week with her girl fried. I was asked to pick him up from jail for work release. I think he got two weeks in county jail / might have had some unpaid tickets.
You're making me investigate pricing and programming of Fanuc robots......
 








 
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