VISI by Vero - anyone using?

[G-Auto]

Is anyone using this software? It's by the same company that makes the Peps wire edm software.

If so how do you like it?

We are looking for our first seat of milling software. We have Peps for the wire machines now and it works pretty good.

TIA

 

[Slapstick]

We use it.

Right now i think they are on version 17 but we are still using version 15, and from what i hear, a lot of people who use visi are still on 15. It is far more popular in europe i hear.

the change from 15 to 16 was huge as far as the CAM portion goes. 16 has a lot of nice features, and the CAD portion has some nice surfacing improvements to it for sure. The HUGE downfall to versions after 15 is that you must move your workplane to absolute ALWAYS... meaning you have to either move all of your orgional geometry, or, copy it all over to it. And if you do a bunch of tool pathing but forgot to move your work plane to absolute first, then you have to redo it all over again... 15 is not like this and you setup your workplane whereever, and go.

Granted, once you get into the habit of copying things over to absolute, i'm sure it's not so bad... we just havn't had time to really dive into it as much.

Right now we do our Surfacing and modelling in VISI 16 and then convert a step file to do our machining in VISI 15.

It's the only Cad/CAM i've used so i have nothing to compare it to, but it is very good IMO at doing it all. I was told that the 3d machining paths are all the same as what is in Mastercam. The CAD should be enough to do just about anything you need, and the CAM has lots of tool pathing to choose from.

VISI is more of a die mold software, not as much production machining... but that's not to say it can't be used for that either, i'm just imagining some other CAM has more bells and whistles to appeal to production machining.

If you have any questions about it let me know i'd be glad to share what i know!

Oh also we run it in Metric and a VISI rep told us that running it imperial has a lot more issues, as it is intended to be a metric program. Never tried it in imperial... was just told there was more "glitches" with it.

 

[JCarroll]

I did this with Visi.
The 3D engine used is Machining Strategist, arguably one of the worlds best products for 3D work. I don't know who told you you had to move geometry to the global origin but they are incorrect.
What started out as a mold and die design product now has all of the bases covered. V17 is definitely worth the move - especially for 2D and 3+2 milling.

 

[Slapstick]

you don't have to translate your gometry to absolute origin?

We had a guy work for us for a couple of months that had worked @ VISI for the last 4 years or so i think. he was the one who told us that we must move everything to absolute origin in order to machine properly.

I agree JC that the 3d machining is great, it has never failed us here. It really is IMO a very good software for the price... i think a full blown seat with every single feature and bell and whistle, would be around $20 - $24K Canadian. the CAD is great also and you're not limited to it just being for CAM.

The jump from 15 to 16 was quite big with having to learn the Cam navigator (mind you you're fairly comfortable within a week). The kinematic simulation in 16 is amazing too.

How is 17 compared to 16 JC? What are the main changes? One nice one that i know of is being able to rebuild tool path linking only instead of the entire tool path. I hear 18 is going to be another fairly big change.

 

[Slapstick]

Now that i am thinking about it... i think we were told that for 3axis work we would be fine having our workplane anywhere... but when it came to our 3+2 5axis work is when we had to "be sure it's on absolute".

it's good too see other VISI users out there... it's a good CAD/CAM that is way under popular for how good it is IMO.

Nice looking work BTW JC!

 

[JCarroll]

My seat of Visi is worth $100K US more or less.
I've got the full Progress, Mold, Electrode and Mold Flow package as well as every machining module. including wire EDM and have been using the product since 1998. I also sold it out here in California for a couple of years.

"We had a guy work for us for a couple of months that had worked @ VISI for the last 4 years or so i think. he was the one who told us that we must move everything to absolute origin in order to machine properly."

I used to teach it that way until V15 and still do depending on the user.
Since V15 there is just a toggle in the machine set up to output either absolute or relative data. In V17, the cam setup is completely configurable and unlike earlir versions than V16. you have to create one, at least, to begin programming anything.

"The jump from 15 to 16 was quite big with having to learn the Cam navigator (mind you you're fairly comfortable within a week). The kinematic simulation in 16 is amazing too."

I pretty much skipped V16. I was in the middle of something and the interface changed significantly. i also didn't especially want to be a guinea pig, if you know what I mean.

The CAM Navigator in V17 is awesome - even when compared to V16. 2D and 3+2 milling is highly automated. That alone would make the upgrade worth doing for a production machine shop. I probably should have gone to V16. Oh well......

As for the simulator, I've got a collection of about 70 completely defined machine kinematics models that have all been tested on actual machines. I have posts as well but they are easier for end users to modify now because they are text files.

My 5 axis OKKPV600 simulation model, and a bunch of others, even have the control and sheet metal modeled. I gave one away to a new user in Missouri as a courtesy just last week along with the post to drive it. I'd rather sell these but the dealer is a friend and needed a hand. Maybe I ought to make a business out of this sort of thing. There isn't much else going on right now. LOL

BTW, Vero owns the Machining Strategist product. PEPS too.
I'll look at my notes on the linking.

Here is another part to look at, it's the F-35 forward radar bulkhead and if you ever see an aircraft you can see where it's bonded into the airframe by the color change.

I take it your Visi dealer is Vero Tooling Solutions?
I think that is the name anyway.

J

 

[G-Auto]

J,
The people selling Visi is Camtek down in Georgia. I am going to install the demo tomorrow. Thanks for the info.

 

[JCarroll]

Good luck.
I only looked in over here because of an automated message from this site wishing me a happy birthday.

I am now - officially - as old as dirt.

JC

 

[HuFlungDung]

That is some awesome machining. Kind of an OT remark, but does machining really thin, large parts not have a lot of issues with vibration of the work whilst it it being cut? Or do you fill the back with low temp alloy? Other trade secrets?

What about warpage of the part? Do you have to flip it a couple of times to minimize this?

 

[JCarroll]

Every job is a little different.
The parts in the first two pics here are Ti and were made on a 5 Axis SNK milling machine.
You can't tell from the photo's but the wall varies in thickness from .090 thru .187 and the shape is just odd. The angles constantly change around the part.
That was supported with a fixture that isn't shown. LOL

The third photo is another LOX dome. These are filled but you can't do it with Cerrabend or you just tear the diffuser apart as it cools. The wall on the one here is .125 but in the earlier one it's .060. The Indium Bismuth I used was nearly 100 USD per pound and altogether, I needed 22 pounds. There was a larger part in the job.

The first two photos in my earlier message are a part that was cut in just three set ups. No flipping around. As it turns out, this is actually on topic because what I did was use Visi's mold flow analysis product to analyze the roughing process and apply the result to the tool path. The customer thought it was wierd that the pockets weren't roughed out and semi finished sequentially but there was no questioning the result.

The final part shown here is an injector body. It's nearly hollow and had to be flat, square and paralell within .0005. The entire part, except for the OD, was milled. I used a DMU 50 Evo and then just lapped and polished the O-ring gooves and ignotor ports to a 4 microinch finish by hand.
The machining process was a total of 15 operations from an A286 blank to finished part.
That was a pain.

J

 

[Slapstick]

JC,

To get it so you can create a work plane & cam setup anywhere in your CAD (lets say i have a tooling ball i'm going off of for many setups, and my geometry is not on absolute zero in CAD) and have it work properly @ the machine. Do you go into CAM navigator, right click on machine go to properties;additional settings; then check box "use relative CAM-Setup"?

Also is there anywhere to get manuals on VISI? I know a lot about VISI but there is lots i do not know (esp about the new versions)

 

[Joe788]

That Joint Strike Fighter part is fuckin' wicked! I knew right when I saw the shape that it was either an F35 or F22 nose section. The wacky angles give it away. Any idea what kind of coin they were getting for those things?

 

[JCarroll]

You have to pick an Relative Origin to use when you create the Cam Setup.
Use the Work Plane Manager and create one where you want it. just have it active.
Clicking on the little Origin thingy and then picking one does something else.
When the Wpl is Rotated, you will see the rotary angles in the Cam Setup when you are done. What happens in the end depends on your Machine Definition.

Send me a small file and I'll fix it up for you.

JC

 

[JCarroll]

You want one?
LOL
That's a piece of 6AL4V.

 

[Joe788]

You want one?
LOL
That's a piece of 6AL4V.

Wow! I thought it was aluminum. What was the cycle time for that beast?

 

[JCarroll]

Wow! I thought it was aluminum. What was the cycle time for that beast?

I don't remember. A bunch. Even the Al setup part took a while.

Hey, wait a minute here.
Are you the real Joe788 or the fake real Joe788?
LOL

JC

 

[HuFlungDung]

The first two photos in my earlier message are a part that was cut in just three set ups. No flipping around. As it turns out, this is actually on topic because what I did was use Visi's mold flow analysis product to analyze the roughing process and apply the result to the tool path. The customer thought it was wierd that the pockets weren't roughed out and semi finished sequentially but there was no questioning the result.

J

So does the above comment mean that your software is somehow able to predict material warpage? Can anything like that be accurately predicted?

 

[JCarroll]

So does the above comment mean that your software is somehow able to predict material warpage? Can anything like that be accurately predicted?

I'd have said that if I'd meant it. What I did was effectively employ a tool designed for one purpose in a way it was never intended to be used.

There are plenty of useful simulation tools avaliable throughout industry that allow for the simulation of manufacturing processes. Like any tool, they rely on the intelligence, experience and diligence of the user in order to be put to good use.


JC

 

[Slapstick]

so how did the trial go?

 

[Steve the Kiwi]

Howdy guys, myself and another guy are complete virgins to this program. Where is it possible for us to download a free tutorial so we can get our heads round the program?
We have created a CAM file, but when we send it to a CNC machining center, we find that our file is 20mm approx out. IE, the machine is cutting air in some sectors but not others. How do we move the absolute origin? Or, what have we done wrong to put us 20mm out? I can send you a file if required for you to look at. I need to navigate my way round this site to find how to attach a file.

Thanks in advance.

Sorry, using Visi 19 on an Akira-Seiki SR3XP