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VMC Purchase Input (sub $100k budget)

LOTT

Hot Rolled
Joined
Nov 28, 2016
Given that the base model is $20k, how much are you going to save buying direct? Once you've paid for shipping, import fees, the time and hassle of dealing with it all, I don't see how you can save enough to be worthwhile.

And while moble techs would be nice, there is something to be said for a user base you can talk to in your country. I've posted some questions on here about an orphan Taiwanese lathe we had. It wasn't and isn't a bad machine, but there was one other owner in the country I am aware of, so it's harder to troubleshoot. And while most parts are off the shelf, it can be a pain to track them down when you're going all the way to Asia. If Syil has even a basic supply of parts in the US it's an advantage.
 

EmGo

Diamond
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Location
Over the River and Through the Woods
Given that the base model is $20k, how much are you going to save buying direct? Once you've paid for shipping, import fees, the time and hassle of dealing with it all, I don't see how you can save enough to be worthwhile.

Actual price on those is maybe seven grand. You're right, there's costs but in reality you could get a better machine to the US for fifteen, if you worked at it.

Sorry, here's a bit of philosophy. Not everyone is the same. Some people make complex stuff for Northrop, some people make flaming skulls for license plates on harleys. Some people have customers with way more money than brains, some people foolishly get themselves into making $100 parts for $29.95 Making stuff is such a big field, I think the people who proclaim "must have this ! must have that !" are not being realistic. They must have this or that ... but there's lots of other people out there who are not like them. We don't all need to drive a mustang, or a toyota, or an SUV, or a pickup, right ? So let other people choose what's best for their situation.

I don't feel a need to be the china chamber of commerece but sometimes someone asks a question and I don't mind giving a possible answer. If someone wants to pay $165,000 for a umc 500 (actual cost plus tax), that's their decision, none of my business but if they dont know, there are other more performant less expensive options. Just like most threads here, if someone says "I'm drilling 3" holes with #4 morse taper drills" then someone will mention there's better ways to do that. That's the point of a forum, no ?

And while moble techs would be nice, there is something to be said for a user base you can talk to in your country.
Ime, everything is a balance. What we'd like is a devlieg that fits in the space of a bridgeport and costs as much as a harbor freight minilathe, with a programming guy from lockheed in a shed out back :)

What we're gonna get is less attractive ... but I look at some of this stuff here and think "If I'd had this in 1980 instead of what I did have, I'd be rolling in money and wouldn't have all these ulcers".

For some people, there is an opportunity dividend. There's some okay stuff available in China. There's advantages and there's drawbacks. That's all.

If Syil has even a basic supply of parts in the US it's an advantage.
Don't want to rag on them but I believe all they do is buy low, sell high.

I have heard the voices saying "need local parts and service" but if you do that, there's no financial advantage. So why would anyone buy your unknown instead of, for example, Haas ? At least it's a known quantity.

The situation is different in China, there they are local companies. But why should they expend effort selling to the US ? It's a much smaller market against established names, for what ? They have plenty to do at home.

In some cases there's a quality advantage (yup, I can point to five better 5 ax mills than the UMC for way less money) but for most people, they are too indoctrinated to see that and when you start spending over a hunnerd grand, then it's management people making decisions, not guys who know what linear motors are.

Interestingly enough, one place I like has a single purchaser in the US - no dealers or anything - and that's Eaton. So that's another use-case, where the buyer is big enough to know what they're doing and smart enough to recognize value. But they don't need me to tell them.

Anyhow, in op's case I don't see why he doesn't just scrounge up a clean used V33. Get the pallet changer model. Ticks pretty much every checkbox and we can go back to arguing over the merits of a taper attachment on a south bend.

p.s. Syil doesn't know a damn thing. All they would do is the same thing you can do, send an email to the company that makes the machines. In their case, they could write it in chinese but ... for tripling the price, that's service I can do without.

Others may think different.
 

EndlessWaltz

Cast Iron
Joined
Jun 18, 2016
Location
Midwest
Based on the economy, shops closing up or about to, he may want to buy used. But then again Haas may have some screaming deals now they can sell to the Russians and their machines show up not working.

used Fanuc robodrill fit what he needs?
 

seahuston

Plastic
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Circling back to this thread in case anyone was hoping for closure.

Had an electrician over to the new space and discovered some really big set backs with power supply. The reported 3ph isn't in the unit and owner isn't willing to entertain adding it. With 100A supply in this shop and my garage I'm stuck either looking for new space or a machine I'm comfortable running on a phase converter. Space is tough in this town. Bummer, I was really excited about the SVM for this move.

Leaning towards the compact drill/tap style now mainly for the footprint but also to run it off a smaller supply.

I know Syil creates a lot of emotions around here but I have them on the list. As far as I can tell they are not just white labeling machines, I've yet to see anything that looks like the X7 from other suppliers. Went and checked one out last night and was quite impressed. Nice build quilty, Syntec control seemed fine, quick tool change, nice attention to detail in a lot of places. Didn't push the spindle but cuts sounded fine.

I'm leaning most heavily towards a used medium bed Robodrill and hoping to be able to run it off a 20HP RPC or a PT010 phase perfect. It's a similar footprint to the X7 with much more travel.
 

crossthread82

Cast Iron
Joined
Apr 1, 2022
Location
Maryland
Circling back to this thread in case anyone was hoping for closure.

Had an electrician over to the new space and discovered some really big set backs with power supply. The reported 3ph isn't in the unit and owner isn't willing to entertain adding it. With 100A supply in this shop and my garage I'm stuck either looking for new space or a machine I'm comfortable running on a phase converter. Space is tough in this town. Bummer, I was really excited about the SVM for this move.

Leaning towards the compact drill/tap style now mainly for the footprint but also to run it off a smaller supply.

I know Syil creates a lot of emotions around here but I have them on the list. As far as I can tell they are not just white labeling machines, I've yet to see anything that looks like the X7 from other suppliers. Went and checked one out last night and was quite impressed. Nice build quilty, Syntec control seemed fine, quick tool change, nice attention to detail in a lot of places. Didn't push the spindle but cuts sounded fine.

I'm leaning most heavily towards a used medium bed Robodrill and hoping to be able to run it off a 20HP RPC or a PT010 phase perfect. It's a similar footprint to the X7 with much more travel.
I'd be strongly considering a Brother if that is the case. It's more rigid than either the Syil or the Robo. And it'll run off the phase converter without issues. I'd call Yamazen and see if they're offering any discounts on old stock x2 models right now, I'm sure there's a deal to be had.
 

Wsurfer

Cast Iron
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Location
Austin Texas
I'd be strongly considering a Brother if that is the case. It's more rigid than either the Syil or the Robo. And it'll run off the phase converter without issues. I'd call Yamazen and see if they're offering any discounts on old stock x2 models right now, I'm sure there's a deal to be had.
+1,
Yamazen is offering some good deals on the S500 to make way for the new control. I've had No problem running on a phase converter. Power company wants $35k to install 3 phase.
 

EmGo

Diamond
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Location
Over the River and Through the Woods
I know Syil creates a lot of emotions around here but I have them on the list. As far as I can tell they are not just white labeling machines, I've yet to see anything that looks like the X7 from other suppliers.
With eight total employees, they aren't running much of a factory. And the fact that you haven't seen another one like it doesn't mean much, there must be fifty places making vmc's in china. At least fifty.

Not criticizing them, if people are happy that's good but don't kid yourself. They are not a factory.
 

alliancefab

Hot Rolled
Joined
Feb 24, 2009
Location
Massachusetts
Circling back to this thread in case anyone was hoping for closure.

or a machine I'm comfortable running on a phase converter. Space is tough in this town. Bummer, I was really excited about the SVM for this move.
all my machines are on converters. The SVM is on a 30hp North American phase converter pl-30 with a 100 amp line in and it maybe draws 50 amps. I do have a 400amp service in my shop 2 200amp panels single phase. The 200amp panel the SVM is on also has a Hurco VM1, Haas ST-10 and VF-2 all on separate converters and no power issues. I don't really run them all at once but the 3 mills are usually running always have at least 2 going.
also you can change a parameter for the spindle ramp on the svm to help with inrush/draw if you need it.

your biggest problem will be with an air compressor for power. a piston compressor will draw a ton on startup even with an un-loader valve a screw will too but you don't want a screw to stop and start all day.
 
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