VMC vs CNC Knee Mills

[LOTT]

You're in the same realm as the guy asking about a Tormach, and again I don't think a Haas TM would be the worst option. It's single phase, has a tool changer and flood coolant, and a large work envelope. If/when you outgrow it you won't have any trouble selling it off.

An older high end machine might be more bang for buck, but I understand the hesitancy to jump in the deep end without experience.

 

[Bakerprecision]

You're in the same realm as the guy asking about a Tormach, and again I don't think a Haas TM would be the worst option. It's single phase, has a tool changer and flood coolant, and a large work envelope. If/when you outgrow it you won't have any trouble selling it off.

An older high end machine might be more bang for buck, but I understand the hesitancy to jump in the deep end without experience.

I'm certainly committed to learning everything CNC. I have quite a bit of manual machining experience from my aviation career, but that will only take me so far (mainly with the gunsmithing side of it). But I want to get into prototype and one off work, hopefully stay small and happy as long as I can before making serious investments into machines and the business in general.

On that note, I'm definitely keeping an eye out for a used Mini Mill 2 or a Syil X7 (honestly anything that might fit in my garage).

 

[Bakerprecision]

So I'm quickly learning that garage size vmc's are 1. hard to find used, and 2. come at a premium. Who would have thought you could get a used VF0/1 cheaper than a Super Mini Mill (approx same vintage)???

Can't find the Syil used, and I've decided against tormachs.

Any suggestions on possible alternatives? Or should I just take up my entire garage with a VF1

 

[rklopp]

So I'm quickly learning that garage size vmc's are 1. hard to find used, and 2. come at a premium. Who would have thought you could get a used VF0/1 cheaper than a Super Mini Mill (approx same vintage)???

Can't find the Syil used, and I've decided against tormachs.

Any suggestions on possible alternatives? Or should I just take up my entire garage with a VF1

Bridgeport GX480 or 710, Bridgeport V480 or V710, Hurco VM1, Hurco VM ONE (different machines), Doosan DEM 4000, Sharp SV-2412...

 

[LOTT]

Sharp SV-2412 is what that other guy landed on, they're a good garage machine.

 

[GT6_Racer]

I have both a very nice fully rebuilt Bridgeport series 1 with a Newall dro and a 2014 SWI SMX bed mill. Both have their uses. I use the bedmill far more than the Bridgeport I started with. The smx is a full 3d control. I program with fusion 360. For the work I do, repairs, tools, fixtures, hobby robot parts etc it works very well. 3 Kurt 6” vises can do several small parts at a time minimizing tool changes by hand. it doesn’t compete with a VMC for speed, but it was far cheaper, smaller footprint, and is easy to transition from manual to CNC. I still use the old Bridgy, but usually for second operations, small drilling, or dividing head work. The choice is really personal and what’s best for your work desires. In any case tooling cost is staggering. cat 40 spindle is far stiffer than R8. A commercial rotary phase converter and proper 3 phase panel & distribution was the best investment I made for the shop early and can’t recommend the individual machine VFD route unlesss you only plan on very few old small manual machines. After several years, If I had to have only 1 mill it would be the bedmill with a cat40 spindle. If I was running production I’d buy a proper vmc as new as I possibly could afford sized for the work. unless you are an electronics whiz, old CNC can get unbelievably expensive very quickly. Went through that at work with a pair of Fanuc controllers on Swiss lathes. Eventually we replaced the lathes. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Bakerprecision]

Anyone with experience on a Milltronics RW15? Found one locally for $16k (2006) 40x20x20 10hp, pretty clean looking. I can't find much info on these older Milltronics units. Are parts easy to find for these?

 

[moonlight machine]

I'm certainly committed to learning everything CNC. I have quite a bit of manual machining experience from my aviation career, but that will only take me so far (mainly with the gunsmithing side of it). But I want to get into prototype and one off work, hopefully stay small and happy as long as I can before making serious investments into machines and the business in general.

On that note, I'm definitely keeping an eye out for a used Mini Mill 2 or a Syil X7 (honestly anything that might fit in my garage).

The cnc mill I have for sale will go in your garage.

Anyone with experience on a Milltronics RW15? Found one locally for $16k (2006) 40x20x20 10hp, pretty clean looking. I can't find much info on these older Milltronics units. Are parts easy to find for these?

You find parts at your local Milltronics dealer. Used to be able to buy direct from militronics but not anymore. I have an old ML20 lathe, it is fine.

 

[Bakerprecision]

The cnc mill I have for sale will go in your garage.

Where do I find this machine for sale?

You find parts at your local Milltronics dealer. Used to be able to buy direct from militronics but not anymore. I have an old ML20 lathe, it is fine.

Is there a guide on buying uses machines (especially old machines)? Seems like it's not quite as simple as checking a manual machine, but I imagine the process is somewhat similar.

 

[Bakerprecision]

Does anyone know if Fusion 360 post processor (Milltronics) will work with the RW15?

 

[moonlight machine]

Call Miltronics and ask them.

 

[Bakerprecision]

Call Miltronics and ask them.

You said you have a machine for sale, where can I find information on it?

 

[kazlx]

There's a lot of machines that will fit in your garage. I started with a Fadal 3016 and now have a Brother Speedio 700X2. Personally, I'd suggest buying a VMC. You'll want everything they have to offer at some point. I've been in your shoes and basically just further along in your shoes. Everything is in a 500 sq ft garage shop. Speedio, Monarch 10EE, 10x18 bandsaw, Doall Vertical bandsaw, some tooling cabinets, tig welding setup and table and a couple benches. I started out on a manual Logan lathe knowing literally zero about machining. A few years later, I'm seriously considering quitting my job just on job shop work. I run everything on a 15hp RPC. It's a lot to take in at once, but you won't regret getting a VMC of some sort. I started out with a fraction of your budget. You could easily buy a used Mini Mill or even a VF2/3 and get your money back out of it if you take care of it. You easily have a nice budget to set up a shop. You also don't need as much inspection and tooling stuff as people make it sound like. Just keep some cash set aside and buy stuff when you need it for a job or just decide that you want it. Check out auctions, local listings, etc. You can pick up some used stuff and buy new stuff that you use a lot or just want something nice.

 

[Bakerprecision]

There's a lot of machines that will fit in your garage. I started with a Fadal 3016 and now have a Brother Speedio 700X2. Personally, I'd suggest buying a VMC. You'll want everything they have to offer at some point. I've been in your shoes and basically just further along in your shoes. Everything is in a 500 sq ft garage shop. Speedio, Monarch 10EE, 10x18 bandsaw, Doall Vertical bandsaw, some tooling cabinets, tig welding setup and table and a couple benches. I started out on a manual Logan lathe knowing literally zero about machining. A few years later, I'm seriously considering quitting my job just on job shop work. I run everything on a 15hp RPC. It's a lot to take in at once, but you won't regret getting a VMC of some sort. I started out with a fraction of your budget. You could easily buy a used Mini Mill or even a VF2/3 and get your money back out of it if you take care of it. You easily have a nice budget to set up a shop. You also don't need as much inspection and tooling stuff as people make it sound like. Just keep some cash set aside and buy stuff when you need it for a job or just decide that you want it. Check out auctions, local listings, etc. You can pick up some used stuff and buy new stuff that you use a lot or just want something nice.

Kazlx, thanks for the input!

I ended up buying a 2008 TM-1. It's a very clean machine with only 174 hours on it (not a typo). Yes, I know it's not a Vf2 in terms of speed and performance, but it checks most of my boxes, it has a smaller footprint, it's local, and I don't need a small nuclear reactor to power it. I felt like it was a better option than the mini mill because of the table size and less cost. And it was a good $10k less than all of the mini mills I saw. I have a 420sqft garage, but the problem is I only intend to use half of it. I have two kids, and I still need space for their stuff. It will be tight, but doable.

Now I'm searching for a lathe (1440). There's a lot of options for these as well, so I'm just hoping to find the best machine I can for $15k (hopefully less).

 

[Karl_T]

Looks like you made a great score. Now, for the lathe??

have you got a saw? two votes for a roll-in

 

[Bakerprecision]

Looks like you made a great score. Now, for the lathe??

have you got a saw? two votes for a roll-in

A roll-in is definitely on my list, but will likely not make the cut. Takes up a lot of space and they are $$$. I haven't decided on a size yet, but a horizontal bandsaw will likely be the choice.

Do you guys (and gals) have any suggestions for a 1440 lathe? I'm looking at a Kent RML-1440V (north of my $15k budget), but specs look good. I would like to stick with single phase if possible, and be 4-5hp. I would like to buy used if I can find something local, so there can be quite a bit of savings. New might be my only option unless I want to wait for an undetermined amount of time looking for a used machine with those specs.

 

[kazlx]

A roll-in is definitely on my list, but will likely not make the cut. Takes up a lot of space and they are $$$. I haven't decided on a size yet, but a horizontal bandsaw will likely be the choice.

Do you guys (and gals) have any suggestions for a 1440 lathe? I'm looking at a Kent RML-1440V (north of my $15k budget), but specs look good. I would like to stick with single phase if possible, and be 4-5hp. I would like to buy used if I can find something local, so there can be quite a bit of savings. New might be my only option unless I want to wait for an undetermined amount of time looking for a used machine with those specs.

Personally I wouldn't buy a new lathe. There's plenty of really nice used lathes around that size. I had a Cadillac 1440 that was great. There are several Mori Seiki clones. Check out Greer Machinery if you want to look through a dealer. They sell Moris. But for your budget, you should easily be able to find a nice 1440 ish lathe.

The Haas should be a good machine. If you decide to upgrade down the road, you should be able to get most or all of your money back if you got a decent deal.

 

[memphisjed]

A small scissor saw that flips up to vertical is more useful than a roll in. Everrit abrasive saw is best small footprint option imo.

 

[EndlessWaltz]

I would go for a Leblond 15x54. Everywhere and you can get parts still for them quite easily. Light duty lathe but not chinese.

 

[LOTT]

A small scissor saw that flips up to vertical is more useful than a roll in. Everrit abrasive saw is best small footprint option imo.

Really? Have you used a Roll-In? Not trying to start an argument, just curious.

To the OP- does the TM-1 have a tool changer? It should be a good introductory drug. And definitely don't spend $15k on a manual lathe, you could spend a tenth of that and get a good machine out of a tech college.