VMC vs drill tap centers. New machine help

[DouglasJRizzo]

says the doosan rep :P

Former Doosan rep..
Oh, we made drill/tap machines too..
Just sayin'

 

[DouglasJRizzo]

If I switched to a VMC I would have to tripple my rate to make the same $$.

Before or after servicing?
The problem with most drill/tap machines is that they really don't like hogging much.

 

[2outof3]

Before or after servicing?
The problem with most drill/tap machines is that they really don't like hogging much.

On your average job, the amount of "hogging" is minimal compared to the overall time in the cut. I always say, more than 2 inch depth of cut as a main part of every day machining, than 40 taper should be first thought but under that depth of side load, not much difference. Especially with high feed cutter paths.

Unless of course the majority of your work is high nickel alloy. Than 40 or 50 taper.

This is why Japan builds many times more 30 taper VMC's than 40 taper VMC's.

Things change. Processing speed, cutter design and drive/motor response.

 

[empower]

Former Doosan rep..
Oh, we made drill/tap machines too..
Just sayin'

just givin you shit bud :P

 

[empower]

Before or after servicing?
The problem with most drill/tap machines is that they really don't like hogging much.

depends on how you approach hogging. as long as you're doing adaptive style roughing at low radial and high feeds, should be no problem. for sure i wouldnt try to run 30+% radial step overs in bt30 machines.

 

[BROTHERFRANK]

depends on how you approach hogging. as long as you're doing adaptive style roughing at low radial and high feeds, should be no problem. for sure i wouldnt try to run 30+% radial step overs in bt30 machines.

Oh come on Eugene! 50 to 60% is no problem in 6061. ;-)

 

[empower]

Oh come on Eugene! 50 to 60% is no problem in 6061. ;-)

i think he was referring to steels, but yeah i know what you mean.

 

[DavidScott]

Before or after servicing?
The problem with most drill/tap machines is that they really don't like hogging much.

Not sure what you mean by servicing. This is kinda foreign to me having Japanese machines, at least beyond lubes and minor maintenance.

Even my Brother hogs fine with the right tools, but with the size of parts the op says they do I don't see a good 40 taper being much if any faster. As for the argument that the op should get a machine that could do what he currently doesn't the principals of lean disagree. You should get the best machine to do the parts you do, not may do. Generally if the parts are palm sized then that will be a good 30 taper machine.

 

[DouglasJRizzo]

Not sure what you mean by servicing. This is kinda foreign to me having Japanese machines, at least beyond lubes and minor maintenance.

Even my Brother hogs fine with the right tools, but with the size of parts the op says they do I don't see a good 40 taper being much if any faster. As for the argument that the op should get a machine that could do what he currently doesn't the principals of lean disagree. You should get the best machine to do the parts you do, not may do. Generally if the parts are palm sized then that will be a good 30 taper machine.

Even the best Japanese machines will have issues if improperly used. That's what I meant by "servicing."
I own several high quality Japanese machine tools, from premium builders, and have had decades of good service from them, because they are used properly.
Brother is a great machine, however, as someone who's been involved in metal cutting for 50+ years, I can tell you that buying a machine that's "only what you need now" is not good advice, and will only hamstring your shop.
Run your place as you see fit, but I've been on both the builder side, and user side, of this business, for 50+ years, and buying the most machine you can afford is nearly always the best way to go. When work comes, you can handle it.

 

[Mtndew]

I can tell you that buying a machine that's "only what you need now" is not good advice, and will only hamstring your shop.

No matter how large of a machine you buy you'll always get asked to machine something that is too large for it.

 

[empower]

No matter how large of a machine you buy you'll always get asked to machine something that is too large for it.

i've yet to see a part that doesnt fit in our 6x3x1.5 meter work envelope

 

[DouglasJRizzo]

No matter how large of a machine you buy you'll always get asked to machine something that is too large for it.

Well, not really.
My milling is up to 60 X 30, and turning up to 10 X 18. Never had anything come through over that, yet.

 

[Mtndew]

My milling is up to 60 X 30

Ours is 30 x 80 and we've had some really nice work come in for quoting that was juuust too big. So we had to turn some stuff down.

 

[Mtndew]

i've yet to see a part that doesnt fit in our 6x3x1.5 meter work envelope

lol yeah that might be an exception.

 

[2outof3]

i've yet to see a part that doesnt fit in our 6x3x1.5 meter work envelope

I have. I have customers buy 4 x 6 meter machines and complain about the distance between columns.

 

[DouglasJRizzo]

Ours is 30 x 80 and we've had some really nice work come in for quoting that was juuust too big. So we had to turn some stuff down.

Lucky dog.

 

[GiroDyno]

i've yet to see a part that doesnt fit in our 6x3x1.5 meter work envelope

I made a set of parts that required the bay door to be left open on our 100' x 20' x 8' 5axis and we had to flip it around lengthwise to get both end finished.

It was a real bummer when the hydraulics sprang a leak and the brake went out on that machine over a weekend and it put a hole through the facesheet of that mold and we had to drag it our, repair it , then drag it back in...

 

[empower]

I made a set of parts that required the bay door to be left open on our 100' x 20' x 8' 5axis and we had to flip it around lengthwise to get both end finished.

It was a real bummer when the hydraulics sprang a leak and the brake went out on that machine over a weekend and it put a hole through the facesheet of that mold and we had to drag it our, repair it , then drag it back in...

ok, you prob have the biggest dick... LOL

 

[LOTT]

I made a set of parts that required the bay door to be left open on our 100' x 20' x 8' 5axis and we had to flip it around lengthwise to get both end finished.

It was a real bummer when the hydraulics sprang a leak and the brake went out on that machine over a weekend and it put a hole through the facesheet of that mold and we had to drag it our, repair it , then drag it back in...

Do you have pictures you can share of this monster?

...buying a machine that's "only what you need now" is not good advice, and will only hamstring your shop.
...... buying the most machine you can afford is nearly always the best way to go. When work comes, you can handle it.

I disagree. I make smallish parts, almost all will fit in your hand and with some you can pick up a fist full of a hundred parts. Buying a bigger, more expensive machine would get me nothing. Find the machine that fits your work, whether that's 500mm or 50'.

 

[DouglasJRizzo]

Do you have pictures you can share of this monster?


I disagree. I make smallish parts, almost all will fit in your hand and with some you can pick up a fist full of a hundred parts. Buying a bigger, more expensive machine would get me nothing. Find the machine that fits your work, whether that's 500mm or 50'.

You can fit even more of those parts in one set up, on a larger machine.
That's why I did what I did.