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Wade 8a #407

A Wade 8A is not even like "other (production) Wade" lathes.

More like all-around-useful "wife material".
As you will discover, in due course.
Sounds like a marriage made in Machinist Heaven as I'm more of an all-around-useful/less kind of guy material.
As you've probably noticed. :p
 
Made some progress this week and last. Made some chips! Not picture worthy but they were chips! Super happy moment. Short lived though. I was using a 1/2" collet and the stock started to spin as I took a slightly deeper cut. Tried to tighten the draw bar and it helped. However, the amount of tightening that would keep it from spinning was approaching the point of "this is going to break something". So, we tore down the draw bar and investigated.... The draw bar looks to have been a collet closer draw bar AND had the buttress threads turned over a smaller thread......
So, now we're rebuilding the draw bar, making a collar in place of the collet close bearing and will try again.
I should have this thread name changed to "Adventures in Machining - Wade 407 version 2.0"

Learning a TON and having a blast.
 
Still making VERY slow progress. 6 hours per week is painful, but it is good work and I consider it cheap therapy.

Does ANYONE have a good picture of an ORIGINAL Wade draw bar? Not a collet closer but the draw bar? Specifically the handle end?

Here's an example of one from Wade8a.com. Just hoping for something clearer or maybe even dimensions?
30702.jpg
 
Darren, Hopefully these photos are what you are looking for. The outer diameter of the closer tube should be sized to fit your spindle. Most of the measurements don't appear to be very critical. The 2" diameter collar is the outer race of a thrust bearing. I don't have the inner sections yet (the bearing was so dirty I didn't realize the inner section was there...) Let me know if there are additional photos or measurements that you need.


Tom

Wade-Collet-Closer-1.jpg Wade-Collet-Closer-3.jpg
Wade-Collet-Closer-2.jpg Wade-Collet-Closer-4.jpg
 
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Thanks JGestar. That image has me confused. Is that inner "collar" a bearing surface? I "believe" that would have been used with a collet closer. Not a lot of information on these Wade parts so I'm pretty much guessing.
 
Andy is correct, the collar is a thrust bearing that slips off the closer tube. Perhaps these photos will help, one showing the back of the bearing and one showing the front. The bearing rides between the closer tube end and the lathe spindle to prevent wear on either. Mine was so clogged with grease and dirt at first I couldn't tell it was a bearing. It's much nicer with all the snot cleaned out.

The parts numbers in the Wade 8A manual (left diagram below) are given as 7W-20, etc., but the parts aren't listed in the 8A manual. The call out refers to the Wade #7 manual parts list (right diagram below). The older Wade 8A and Wade #7 have the same spindle and the same manual collet closer.


Tom

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Wade 8A Manual.gif Wade-Collet-Closer-7.jpg
 
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I disassembled the collet closer (first photo). The black hand wheel appears to be ebonite or a similar hard rubber. The steel collar (part 20 in the prior post diagrams) is pressed onto a shoulder at the end of the closer tube. The collar is not quite flush with the shoulder, so there is a very small step where the thrust bearing hits (green arrow in the second photo). This results in a small gap when the bearing is pushed into place (green arrow in the third photo). The handwheel assembly does not receive any pressure from the thrust bearing.

The thrust bearing does not have any manufacturing marks. The last photo shows the bearing after cleaning and greasing, but before reassembly. While I've never seen a thrust bearing like this, that doesn't mean it isn't available somewhere.


Tom

Wade-Collet-Closer-9.jpg Wade-Collet-Closer-10.jpg Wade-Collet-Closer-8.jpg Wade-Collet-Closer-11.jpg
 
Still making VERY slow progress. 6 hours per week is painful, but it is good work and I consider it cheap therapy.

Does ANYONE have a good picture of an ORIGINAL Wade draw bar? Not a collet closer but the draw bar? Specifically the handle end?

Here's an example of one from Wade8a.com. Just hoping for something clearer or maybe even dimensions?
30702.jpg
Decades ago, I got my first Hardinge Cataract 57 headstock and needed a 5C drawbar for it. I got a NOS South Bend Heavy 10 drawbar and modified it to fit. I mention this because I recall it had a black plastic hand wheel (with South Bend molded on the center flat) that looked a lot like the pictures of the Wade draw bar. I think the ball thrust bearing was quite different.

Larry
 
This has me rethinking a few things I previously assumed. Let's talk Spindle Adj. Nut (#23 in this diagram.) I just learned that part name and previously
I assumed that the Spindle Adj. Nut was originally the draw bar bearing surface. I inferred that the adjustability of the nut meant I could turn a collar to press fit on the draw bar, fit over the spindle tail, and bear against the nut. Thus allowing me to "adjust" the draw on the collet. Based upon the latest discussion, this looks to be an incorrect assumption.

Now I assume the purpose of this nut is to remove any slop that may exist in the spindle. If that is the case.... How would one measure this slop? From the Spindle face? If that is true, where would the wear come from? Head stock bearings? What is the allowed tolerance? How often should this be checked? If/when checked, I assume facing a large diameter and check for run out in the "X" axis?
 

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I believe that the purpose of a thrust bearing near the end of the drawbar is to protect the end of the spindle from getting munched up from repeatedly tightening the drawbar. The drawbar is clamping between the collet taper as it's being draw in and the outboard end of the spindle. Stark used a similar arrangement with the thrust bearing designed like an old fashioned bicycle bearing.
 
More photos.... The first photo shows the collet closer inserted into the spindle and the spindle adjustment nut to the right, on a threaded portion of the spindle. The second photo shows the collet closer partially in the spindle, to show the spindle end. The spindle adjustment nut doesn't have any interaction with the collet closer.

I don't have the spindle hand wheel shown in the Wade 8A manual. That accounts for the bare section of spindle in the photos.


Tom

Wade-Collet-Closer-13.jpg Wade-Collet-Closer-12.jpg
 
Thank y'all for the pictures! Made a couple of bushings for the draw bar. We intentionally made two bushings. If I ever need to adjust the size, I can/will just make a smaller/bigger bushing and be able to keep SOME kind of adjustability. I threw a 1/2" piece of bar stock and made some chips! Tool post wasn't centered, insert wasn't sharp. Fixed those issues and the finish is pretty good. I'd need to use some emery clothes to polish the finish. I haven't measure, cut, measure, yet but things are working and if I had to I feel confident I could turn a small piece to maybe .025", today. The goal is .001 but we'll see if that's realistic.
Great weekend. I have fewer parts to put on than I did last weekend! One of these days, I'll actually have to use this thing rather than work on it. :)

Will add some pics once I re-size them.
 
As promised. (Sorry for the delay).
(Images are clickable thumb nails to non-PM photo sharing site)

Bushings


Draw bar pulled tight by left hand only on 1/2" round stock.



Couple of passes around .020 depth of cut. Not sure as to the spindle speed, yet. Feed rate varied as I get used to the handle.
Not polished but useable. (IMHO)
Note, the buggered right end is the results of running a paper towel over some SERIOUS burs.
Left side? Well I still have some fine tuning on the machine. And obviously myself! ;)
 
You're absolutely right on both points.
Not pictured is a live center I used for the processes. Please keep in mind this is literally the first cuts. There were SEVERAL items that weren't tightened up. e.g. Carriage gibs, cross slide gibs, compound, heck, even the tool post holder and insert needed tightened up. :)
Keeping "all my digits" is a rule well followed around the shop. Having learned that burr saw lesson in the past, I'm QUITE keen on keeping clear and deburring. To be completely transparent, I probably should have run a chamfer after the cut but was too excited that the lathe is actually working and wanted to get a picture of the results. I'll be sure to put an OSHA approved safety guard around the burs in the future. ;) For the record, that "bur end" is actually an aggressive deep cut to see if I could stall the motor, slip the belt, or cause the part to spin in the collet. Lots of chatter, but no slip. :)
 
Been a good while since I've posted. However, progress is progress and the things I've been accomplishing aren't really post worthy. I feel like this is. :)
I FINALLY figured out programming on the Teco-510 VFD and have successfully integrated the vintage lathe controls with the VFD!
In the video you'll see a small 3 position barrel switch.
Left Throw = forward
Right Throw = Reverse
Neutral = Stop (no brake)

Below that is a 3 button housing containing 3, 2 position switches. These are Normally Open and Normally Closed, depending upon how they are wired. I'm using the top 2 as normally open.
Top button = Faster
Middle Button = Slower
Bottom Button = Reserved for E-stop (will have to figure that out)

I can tap the buttons and change speed in small increments or hold them down for quick speed changes.

I still want to fabricate a cover for the VFD to keep that vintage look.
Clean up and protect the wiring with some kind of conduit.
Paint the housings.
etc, etc.
All in good time.
I hope you enjoy.
 
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Looks great Darren! VFDs are magical devices. A big part of that is learning the programming and using all the various remote switching options.
Some models have remote control pads available, which helps to unclutter the machine. I mounted my most recent VFD inside a rear compartment of my Logan lathe. Teco doesn't offer that for the Teco, and if they did it would not look Vintage. I like your solution a lot.
 








 
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