Walker Turner 14 inch Band Saw Tire Selection (sheet metal cutting application)

[MrCreosote]

Grind turn in the saw to flat and let the grooves be. Many “Real” wheels are grooved from the factory to help prevent hydroplaning.

That's fast cutting for wood - metal is dead slow (about 10x slower)

 

[MrCreosote]

As far as the grooves, I'm going to sand and fill with JB Quick Epoxy. The wheel edges are high a perfect for "screeding" level across the rim.

That would be the "better" job.

Tempted to angle grind a crown into the wheel where the grinder would propel the wheel. Then slip on a urethane tire and call it a day. Of course that would be a modification involving metal removal and I have probably too much respect for the machine to do that to it.

 

[Jim Christie]

I remember before the internet one of my woodworking tool suppliers was a dealer for Carter band saw guides and tires .
I never had a need for them but the company started in 1929 is still around .

Band Saw Tires - Wheels & Urethane Tires | Carter Products

Carter Products has everything you need for your band saw, including band saw wheels and tires. Browse our vast selection and order online today!

www.carterproducts.com

They may not be the least expensive option but they may be able to provide some advise.
If you put on something that installs easily and works well even if a little more expensive ,you may find that you will appreciate and use the saw more often than you expected.
Jim

 

[memphisjed]

That's fast cutting for wood - metal is dead slow (about 10x slower)

? Metal band saw wheels, not wood. Grooves are for coolant induced hydroplaning.

 

[MrCreosote]

? Metal band saw wheels, not wood. Grooves are for coolant induced hydroplaning.

The reason I said wood speeds is that air will start lifting the belts (flat and V) off the sheave at high speeds and various methods are used to let that air escape (dimples and holes are common.) This problem is in supercharger v-belt drives at high rpm, 7000 rpm on a 6" sheave, I'm not doing the math but might be close to wood 2500 fpm.

I would like to know more about coolant and the groove fix: When would you need coolant on a vertical saw? I can't see it for steel - especially sheet metal. Stainless or titanium? Would rubber tires hold up? For blades 1/2" wide and smaller what would be the groove layout? Horizontal production saws with wide blades chopping bar stock I can see it all working.

 

[memphisjed]

The reason I said wood speeds is that air will start lifting the belts (flat and V) off the sheave at high speeds and various methods are used to let that air escape (dimples and holes are common.) This problem is in supercharger v-belt drives at high rpm, 7000 rpm on a 6" sheave, I'm not doing the math but might be close to wood 2500 fpm.

I would like to know more about coolant and the groove fix: When would you need coolant on a vertical saw? I can't see it for steel - especially sheet metal. Stainless or titanium? Would rubber tires hold up? For blades 1/2" wide and smaller what would be the groove layout? Horizontal production saws with wide blades chopping bar stock I can see it all working.

Vertical saws are production saws on sub 8 inch flanges with steel. Coolant same reason as machining- cool blade, lubricate blade, and knock chips out of teeth. Steel sticks in gullets bad at around 300 sfm without coolant. Saw blades suggest running 1/2 that without coolant.
All our saws minus small horizontal have just ring grooves on wheel about 1/8 “ apart. I guess in theory a radial tire pattern would be better, if you could make it perfect to not track the blade.
1/2 inch blade maybe shrink the dustance? Reason I would just let your grooves be as is. Will not hurt anything.

 

[MrCreosote]

Vertical saws are production saws on sub 8 inch flanges with steel. Coolant same reason as machining- cool blade, lubricate blade, and knock chips out of teeth. Steel sticks in gullets bad at around 300 sfm without coolant. Saw blades suggest running 1/2 that without coolant.
All our saws minus small horizontal have just ring grooves on wheel about 1/8 “ apart. I guess in theory a radial tire pattern would be better, if you could make it perfect to not track the blade.
1/2 inch blade maybe shrink the dustance? Reason I would just let your grooves be as is. Will not hurt anything.

I was maintenance helper at small factory and the horizontals had a slow rotating wire wheel the brushed the chips off the blade - but no cooling.

I'm still not clear, for coolant hydroplaning (like car tire on wet road), the grooves would be in the tire??? If in the steel wheel wouldn't do anything since covered with tire??? NOTE: Semantics: I use Wheel and Tire to differentiate.

My grooves make the wheel slightly negatively crowned. If I crown a flat tire, I'll have to remove a bit of extra material. Also since wheel should be flat on a WT, would be nice to epoxy level.

I can't find any confirmation that crowning both tires is not necessary. If top crowning is actually optional, Decision for top becomes: 1) Epoxy the grooves? and 2) Rubber or Urethane tire? NOTE: I could try not crowning top and see how the blade tracks w/only crowned bottom.

The other quicker solutions for some additional cost is use crowned urethane tires on both wheels. I don't like this because the bottom wheel rubber tire is in good shape and only needs crowned since never was. I don't like the waste of undoing something that is good working order.

I have a bunch of other irons in the fire so the decision process is spanning many days.

 

[surplusjohn]

I used to order them from jet. I once had a Boice Crane band saw with an broken upper wheel made of bakelite that was beyond jb weld. I sold it to a friend for a bargain price. He made a new top wheel from a spoked pulley with the groove filled in by gluing in a v belt then adding a crowned tire. It worked better than new.

 

[marka12161]

I replaced the tires on my DoAll with urethane tires with a built in crown a few years back. No glue was required. Th DoAll did have a little clip on the edge to keep the tires from walikg off the side of the wheels. If that were my machine, i'd let the grooves be and just put urethane tires on. The grooves may actually help keep the tire from walking off the side.

 

[MrCreosote]

I replaced the tires on my DoAll with urethane tires with a built in crown a few years back. No glue was required. Th DoAll did have a little clip on the edge to keep the tires from walikg off the side of the wheels. If that were my machine, i'd let the grooves be and just put urethane tires on. The grooves may actually help keep the tire from walking off the side.

Excellent point on grooves keeping the tires on.
But I'm hypothesizing one step further:

1. If I put the crowned urethane on the top, it will be larger diameter than the bottom with a good rubber tire (which is worn in the center and needs crowned which is achievable.)
2. I believe only 1 wheel actually needs to be crowned (no internet confirmation.
3. A flat urethan top tire on the grooves would be a perfect match.

I can buy single non-crowned tires, but haven't found single crowned so still looking...

Since some people say they have been able to run saws w/o crowned wheels, then only one would be an improvement. (also this saw's bottom tire is "gullied" in the center from wear AND the blade wore thru the top tire onto the wheel, so there's evidence crowning may not be a problem. I never crowned the tires on my 32" Crescent - in particular the one that I replaced, however I don't know if Crescent had crowned wheels.

Am in the midst of more pressing matters, so not taking any action currently but continuing to research.

 

[MrCreosote]

Thinking about what marka12161 said, I am going to try this:

The W-T wheel is 1.2" wide, but if I use a 1.0" wide tire without anything done to the wheel grooves, I will end up with a mildly crowned tire since the narrower tire will not rest on the wheel edges which are high. There is a crude "high point" in the grooves near the middle of the wheel. This high point is essentially the same height as the wheel edges.

So if the tire is narrow enough, its edges will be lower resulting in a slight crown.

And a bonus of a 1" wide tire is they are cheap. (!)

Then I will put a nice crown on the good bottom rubber tire.

I think that will do the job for cheap.