What's new
What's new

Wanted: Machine or Catalog Image of Napier Saw Door

M.B. Naegle

Diamond
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Location
Conroe, TX USA
Title says it all. Google turns up some fuzzy advertisement images like this selection from an ad on Vintage Machinery here.
Napier door.jpg

I'm looking to sand-cast this door for my saw, as it's missing, and need to see what all the text says so I can recreate it in CAD to make the pattern.

Maybe your eyes are better than mine, but I can see.
-------------
NAPIER
BAND
SAW MACHINE
NAPIER..........
.........
........
USE NAPIER BAND SAWS
---------------

So it's likely nothing important, just an advertisement telling you something about the warrantee being void unless you use genuine parts. Any iron door with raised letters could pass as genuine, but I just want to do it right.

I've only ever seen one other saw than mine, and it's also missing the door (can be found on the VM page), so if anyone knows of other Napier band saws in the wild, I'd be interested in making their acquaintance. My saw's story is here.
 
I see after the big "SAW MACHINE"

Napier Saw Machine *** ('co' or 'inc', maybe 'works') ***

*** (some town, probably Springfield) ***, MASS USA

PATENTED *** (dates) ***
 
Last edited:
Found this image of an old Napier ad, so possibly the line under the big "SAW MACHINE" is
"NAPIER SAW WORKS, INC" Although the word sort of looks longer than "WORKS", unless you squint, then can sort of see a "W" at the start.

 

Attachments

  • napier-1.jpg
    napier-1.jpg
    170 KB · Views: 17
I found four different doors. Three are shown here. The other one is from the very early model.
These are the best I could find. The clearest one says;

Napier Band Saw Machine.
Napier Saw Works Inc.
Springfield Mass. USA
Patented Sept. 28 1909 ? ? (can't make out the last two words).
Use Napier Band Saws

Rob
 

Attachments

  • Napier 2a.jpg
    Napier 2a.jpg
    1.3 MB · Views: 18
  • Napier 2b.jpg
    Napier 2b.jpg
    158.2 KB · Views: 17
  • Napier 6a.jpg
    Napier 6a.jpg
    964.8 KB · Views: 16
  • Napier 6b.jpg
    Napier 6b.jpg
    179.4 KB · Views: 14
  • Napier 7.jpg
    Napier 7.jpg
    2.5 MB · Views: 13
  • Napier 8a.jpg
    Napier 8a.jpg
    1.4 MB · Views: 17
  • Napier 8b.jpg
    Napier 8b.jpg
    451.3 KB · Views: 17
Thanks guys! This is exactly what I was looking for. It looks like most of what the scripts said was likely the same (perhaps some differences in font or punctuation) with most of the differences being in the saw model or name, which might have changed as they altered their marketing approach since this saw was such a new concept? I imagine the patents might have changed too, so I'm looking at those and the history chronology on VM to try to establish a better date of manufacture for my saw and establish which catalog/advertisement image to use.

The company history is a little messy, with different companies being formed at different times and coexisting together, all linked to Charles Napier and his business of making metal cutting blades and machines.
 
I found four different doors. Three are shown here. The other one is from the very early model.
These are the best I could find. The clearest one says;

Napier Band Saw Machine.
Napier Saw Works Inc.
Springfield Mass. USA
Patented Sept. 28 1909 ? ? (can't make out the last two words).
Use Napier Band Saws

Rob
Do you know when the article with the 2nd design you linked was published?
 
From your old thread, I enlarged and cropped the old works photo that shows yet another version of the door. I was wondering if the old horizontal band saw in the Armington and Sims machine shop at Greenfield Village (Dearborn, MI) was a Napier and if it had a door. I have walked past that saw dozens of times over 70 years, but it is back behind a fence and has no sign saying what it is. The old thread answered the questions, yes, it is a Napier and no, the door is missing.


I looked up 40 Napier St., Springfield, MA on Google Maps and found an empty lot/metals recycling company with no old building. There is an small old brick factory building across the street at 14 Napier St. that could have been part of the saw works. The saw works was about a half mile north of the Armory.


Larry

Napier Saw Machine cropped.png
 
Last edited:
From your old thread, I enlarged and cropped the old works photo that shows yet another version of the door.


Larry

......
My computer doesn't like that link anymore, acting like it's a security threat. Does it open fine for the rest of you?

I saved those pictures from before and I think that machine was a later version from the late 30's or even early 40's. There's a 1936 advertisement showing a different electric motor design, but still using the cast arm and spring. I find it interesting that they went with an I-beam for the counterbalanced arm design, and if you look at the 1920 pattent, they used an I-beam for the prototype spring-arm machines. I'd venture to guess that most machines were the spring arm design and they had a casting made up for it, but they probably didn't make many of the counterbalance design. I've toyed with the idea of adding a sliding counterbalance to mine to help control the downforce.
 
From your old thread, I enlarged and cropped the old works photo that shows yet another version of the door.

This is the other door I mentioned. Perhaps I should not have called it the early one.
It is from the 1920 patent.
It looks like they came out with this model by at least 1917, before they received the patent.
They applied for it in 1916.

Rob
 

Attachments

  • Napier 9.png
    Napier 9.png
    788.7 KB · Views: 14
  • Napier 9b.png
    Napier 9b.png
    864.5 KB · Views: 14
  • Napier 10.png
    Napier 10.png
    904.3 KB · Views: 13
  • Napier 11a.png
    Napier 11a.png
    53.2 KB · Views: 10
  • Napier 11b.png
    Napier 11b.png
    65.3 KB · Views: 11
  • Napier 12a.jpg
    Napier 12a.jpg
    345.2 KB · Views: 12
My computer doesn't like that link anymore, acting like it's a security threat. Does it open fine for the rest of you?

I saved those pictures from before and I think that machine was a later version from the late 30's or even early 40's. There's a 1936 advertisement showing a different electric motor design, but still using the cast arm and spring. I find it interesting that they went with an I-beam for the counterbalanced arm design, and if you look at the 1920 pattent, they used an I-beam for the prototype spring-arm machines. I'd venture to guess that most machines were the spring arm design and they had a casting made up for it, but they probably didn't make many of the counterbalance design. I've toyed with the idea of adding a sliding counterbalance to mine to help control the downforce.

Not a later version. From 1917.
Not an I-beam. Two channels bolted together with a space in between.

Here is an article for the 1909 patent from 1908.

Rob
 

Attachments

  • Napier 11c.png
    Napier 11c.png
    75 KB · Views: 7
  • Napier 13.jpg
    Napier 13.jpg
    1,000.2 KB · Views: 8
I think that the 1909 patent was just for the band saw machine concept. The first version being the small saw pictured without drums.

The 1920 patent had lots of improvements over the 1909 design, and has the same channel-arm construction as the sliding weight saw, but in the patent it has a spring assist and no sliding weight on the top rod, which Is why I thought that the sliding weight came later. The 1920 patent design seems to be where their design took shape with a heavy iron frame and drums to carry the blade, but the weighted spring-less arm design dosn't seem common, so so I think you're right that it wasn't a later design, it was probably a transition prototype leading up to the spring assist. That 1917 ad fits with that idea. Today, there are still lots of new saws made with spring assisted arms, but I don't think I've ever seen one with a sliding weight, so maybe it didn't work as well.

It does look like they were building the 1920 design for a few years before the patent was ready, which is probably why they just had the 1909 patent on the machines.
 
Thanks for all the help so far. It helps having other minds to draw stuff out of Google and interpret it.

This is my current progress:
Napier (2).png
I'm happy with the text proportions, though the last little blurb after the patent date is still in question. It doesn't seem long enough to be another date, so I'm thinking it's some kind of abbreviation, though I can't think what.

The fillets around the edges are a bit of a challenge to, trying to get them all the desired radius without causing errors, so I might have to "manually" modify some once the pattern is in physical form.

The text has draft, but adding a fillet around the base of the letters is proving to be too much for the computer to generate error free, so I might have to do that later with some putty too.

Similar to the door I'm designing for my Brainard Mill, I see this door kind of like reproducing an important document like a title or a birth certificate. Because it holds so much of the machine's identify in terms of information and cosmetics, I want it to be as correct and original as possible, though some artistic liberty has to be taken for the aspects that can't be seen or measured.
 

Attachments

  • Napier (2).png
    Napier (2).png
    2 MB · Views: 5








 
Back
Top