Way oil ISO68 substitute with ISO100 teflon?

[kbrawlz]

Hello, can I get an opinion on way oil.

I was searching for a way oil that would be good to use on a couple vintage lathes.

Instead of the Mobile Vactra #2 iso68 oil most use for ways, I was curious if my SuperLube 52004 Multi-Use Synthetic Lightweight iso68 oil would work. So I messaged the company and asked if the 52004 contained tackifiers, and that I wanted something comparable to Vactra #2 for ways.

They replied the next day that the 52004 had no tackifiers, but other customers had great success using the 51004 Super-Lube Multi-Use Synthetic with Syncolon ptfe iso100 oil on ways.

https://www.super-lube.com/multi-use-synthetic-oil-with-syncolon-ptfe

https://www.super-lube.com/Content/Images/uploaded/documents/TDS/Technical_Data_Sheet_Multi_Use_Oil_w_Syncolon.pdf

I can read the technical data sheet, but don’t know what to compare with Vactra #2. I’m not sure if the viscosity index would tell me how well the oil would cling to a vertical surface.

So, does anyone think this synthetic iso100 oil with Teflon would be comparable to use instead of Vactra#2?

(I already own the 52004 lightweight iso68 and the 51004 w/teflon iso100)

Thank you for taking the time to read this. I could not find the answer using the normal search options.

 

[neanderthal mach]

I learned a long time ago I'm not and never will be smarter or more clever than the trained lubrication experts. With something vintage I suppose that means at least some level of wear. So any oil is better than none I guess, but why try and reinvent the wheel with something else other than a proper and built specifically for the job way oil. A half decent machine tool from any reputable manufacturer is built to tolerances far closer than the best F1 or top fuel engine. I don't recall there race techs thinking any old oil they have around the shop should be good enough for those engines. It's also not just the tacifier's that are in proper way oil, there's additives to prevent what's known as stick / slip, Google it because it does make a difference. And yes what your looking for would be called the viscosity index so you can compare apples to apples.

 

[sfriedberg]

I’m not sure if the viscosity index would tell me how well the oil would cling to a vertical surface.

Not at all. An ISO68 circulating oil (e.g., Mobil DTE Heavy Medium) and an ISO68 way oil (e.g., Mobil Vactra 2) have the same viscosity index, but the 1st one will run right off vertical surfaces while the 2nd one will stick.

 

[triumph406]

I learned a long time ago I'm not and never will be smarter or more clever than the trained lubrication experts. With something vintage I suppose that means at least some level of wear. So any oil is better than none I guess, but why try and reinvent the wheel with something else other than a proper and built specifically for the job way oil. A half decent machine tool from any reputable manufacturer is built to tolerances far closer than the best F1 or top fuel engine. I don't recall there race techs thinking any old oil they have around the shop should be good enough for those engines. It's also not just the tacifier's that are in proper way oil, there's additives to prevent what's known as stick / slip, Google it because it does make a difference. And yes what your looking for would be called the viscosity index so you can compare apples to apples.

You evidently know nothing about F1 engines.

 

[jwmelvin]

You evidently know nothing about F1 engines.

Hehehe that was my immediate thought too.

 

[dian]

that synco looks like an expensive product. you dont need synthetics for way oil. (mayby even on the contrary, but i wont go into that.) you dont need food grade. but you need tactifiers imo, even if not for vertical surfaces, although some way oils dont have them. what you might need, however, is coolant resistance. 118/15 kinematic viscosity would generally be considered on the thick side.

stick slip is interesting. put two identical objects (preferably ground, simple geometry) on a smooth surface (mirror, surface plate), put an equal amount of each of your oils on them and incline surface slowly. see which one stars moving first. report what you found.

btw, i wonder what e.g. skf would say to telfon particles in their bearings. and the 4-ball test is nothing out of the ordinay. not that its relevant in any way, just to say its not some magic product.

 

[Mtndew]

You evidently know nothing about F1 engines.

I've never seen the specs on an F1 engine, care to enlighten the rest of us?

 

[kbrawlz]

Ok, thank you.

I just wanted to clean all the build-up on this new-to-me mini machine. I didn’t want to spend a lot of time searching for, ordering and waiting to get Vactra, since I already have this oil with Syncolon sitting here that I use on everything.

I don’t want to start cleaning everything until I have an oil to put on it. So I’ll just stop trying to rush into the project and find the proper oil.

I just figured Yamaha engines say you can only use Yamalube products when servicing, but there are others you can use instead. I was hoping Mobil Vactra #2 wasn’t the only game in town.

 

[4GSR]

On such a small toy as you describe, your Super Lube 68 should be just fine.

 

[crrmeyer]

If you have an older lathe that specifies Vactra 2, please note that the current Vactra 2 no longer has tackifiers added. To get the old Vactra 2 with tackifiers, you need to buy Vacuoline 1409.

 

[sfriedberg]

Err, that's not entirely correct, crrmeyer. Current Vactra does have tackifiers in it, they are just fewer/different from the original tackifiers. One particular additive (peritack) was removed because it was incompatible with a large class of coolants (water-based, IIRC, but can't find confirmation on that detail). The Vacuoline 14xx series has the original Vactra tackifiers. IIRC, there were certain applications (printing presses and similar machines) where the new Vactra formulation is very unsatisfactory. But if you compare Mobil DTE Heavy Medium (ISO 68) against Mobil Vactra 2 (ISO 68), it will immediately be obvious that Vactra still has tackifiers. In fact, you cannot wipe the current Vactra 4 off a surface without solvent or effort.
Vacuoline 1405 (ISO 32) is like the old Vactra 1, 1409 (ISO 68) is like the old Vactra 2, and 1419 (ISO 220) is like the old Vactra 4.
Unless you have a specific application where current Vactra doesn't work, I wouldn't bother hunting down Vacuoline. On the other hand, if a jug of Vacuoline suddenly appears, it's fine to use if the machine doesn't use water-based flood coolant. If you are using a water-based coolant, you are better off with Vactra than with Vacuoline.

 

[crrmeyer]

I compared both 1409 and new #2 on my Index 747 mill. The 1409 was much tackier and stayed in place. The new #2 did not. So while new #2 may still have some tackifiers, it behaves much differently than 1409 from my observations.

But I agree if you are running water based coolant that is not compatible with 1409 (I am not), the new #2 is your better option.

 

[kbrawlz]

If you have an older lathe that specifies Vactra 2, …

My early 1900s lathe says, “Use good grade, light motor oil”.

But this post isn’t just for me. That SuperLube representative stated their iso100 with Teflon is used by many of its customers for ways, and so I wanted to verify the equivalence to Vactra2 or Vacuoline1409.

Even though my manual says to use motor oil, they probably didn’t have Vactra2 back then, so I want to use what is appropriate to use for more modern machines. Vactra2/Vacuoline1409 for ways, and whatever is used for more modern machines with brass bearings, gears, leadscrew, etc.

So the input from everyone has been very valuable to me. Because in all my time using manual and cnc lathes and mills, the dispenser lubricant was filled by someone else in the shop and I‘ve never even questioned what it was or it’s characteristics.

I hope anyone wondering if the SuperLube is ok to use, also finds this helpful.

 

[kbrawlz]

…whatever is used for more modern machines with brass bearings, ….

I meant bronze bearings