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Way WAY OT...time to buy a new car...recommendations?

Don’t make me pull up the charts lol..

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I can remember very clearly how crappy cars were that were made in the 50s and 60s and 70s, as I owned a couple dozen of em. New cars dont break. You push the button, they start. My current honda has spark plugs that last 90,000 miles. I bought a half dozen 60s american cars for under 300 bucks because, at the time, in the early 70s, everybody knew they puked at 100k, and, 90% of em did...
 
Oh really.

You must think you are on a knitting forum.

I have been working on my own cars all my life just like I’m betting everyone else on this site.
I tore into them for the last 40 years or so and put to rights what need fixing if it’s changing the oil or rebuilding the engine.
I’ve done so much of it I’m just done.
I want the damn things to work without me having to turn wrenches and as luck would have it the new cars do just that.
They just run and run and run.

My current driver bought new is 13 years old and has 290k on the clock.
I will no doubt run it to 350k or so and still have no problems.
New cars are that good.

No a single person is telling you what you have to do.
I’m saying what works for me and pretty much plain facts.
Cars are better built and more reliable than they have ever been.
me too. There is not a part on a car I have not taken apart at one point or another. And it was never fun, but when I was making two dollars and fifty cents an hour, it was necessary.
I have consistently had much better luck buying new cars, and taking care of them, than buying "cheap" used cars, and suffering from the crappy maintenance of former owners.
I have had 3 or 4 cars I bought new and ran up to a quarter million miles with nothing but the most basic common stuff- tires, batteries, brake shoes and oil changes.
At that point, I sold em for decent money, and bought a new car.
I am done fixing beaters. My current 2015 Honda will most likely outlast me.
 
We helped my son buy a used subaru last fall. Nothing worth buying used under 10 grand, and for ten grand you get a ten year old one with 100 k minimum. Snowboarders drive the prices up.

Just to help make your point....
:)

Late last summer my wife decided it was time for a new Subaru.
She went around, shopped, made a deal, i drove her in for the closing "just in case"
Sales guy is writing it all up and comes to the part where "we can give you $1,000 for your 2014 Impreza" Always dealer serviced by them. Which had some accident history, but was now like a new car bodywise, albeit 170K+ miles.

I said "I'll bid $1,001."
You could tell he did not like it, but we just added another thousand cash to the pile & drove the Impreza back home.

Needed it for my ski instructor gig. The year before i drove the Silverado all winter and did not want to afford that anymore.
Most days, 139.6 mi round trip, i get 40 or 41 MPG in the Subaru.

I am wondering when the noisy transmission becomes a problem, though.

smt
 
I can remember very clearly how crappy cars were that were made in the 50s and 60s and 70s
To be fair, that's not what he said. What he said was correct : in let's say twenty years, these cars will not be repairable even if they are mechanically good, because the electronics can not be fixed. Sure, a 1975 BMW with a single hall effect sensor can be aftermarketed but that's not going to happen with cars of today's complexity.

And that part is true. He never claimed a 1968 Buick Wildcat was a better car than a 2024 Honda. He just said you can still fix it.

He did go on to say that for him that was better but we are allowed to make our own decisions on that.
 
What he said is the modern cars are stacking up in junk yards and otherwise are “unaffordable” due to obsolete electronics.

Both ries and I have the same experience.
Cars are driven upwards of 300k on the clock and are still running strong without those feared failures.

I did check in with my brother in law who runs Hondas - two daily drivers in the clan with 300plus

When I started out I was buying junkers which were shot at less than 70k run.
I’d nurse them back to be runners and drive them for awhile continually fighting back the parts failures till I got sick of it, changed horses and ran that one till it dropped.

Are electronics really an issue when the vehicles without them have been sent to the junk yard at a quarter of the miles driven.

Again- these modern cars stay on the road twice as long as they had before electronics and the general improvements.
 
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I’m partial to Honda’s. Awesome little cars or SUV’s, if that’s your thing.

No love for Hyundai-Kia. Total shit boxes. Same for Mitsubishi if you’re keeping tally. Whatever you get, get the service records. No idea why people don’t change their ATF…
I love Hondas and Toyotas for reliability. I bought a Kia Optima in 2012. It is well engineered and now with 108,000 miles it has been virtually trouble free.

I think Kia and Hyundai got a bad reputation (well deserved) when they first came to the U.S., but are good cars now.
 
What he said is the modern cars are stacking up in junk yards and otherwise are “unaffordable” due to obsolete electronics.
No he did not and you are putting words in his mouth. You made me go look; no, you are making a straw man to knock down. He never said old cars are better than new. I don't totally agree with his viewpoint, he seems to want a car to last fifty years, but that wasn't the original message. Yes. Electronics will make current cars totally unrepairable in, I dunno, let's say twenty years ?

Is that a problem ? Not to me. But I'm not going to make up things he never said just so I can go on and on about how superior today's cars are to the olde dayes.

And personally, I wouldn't have one of today's cars if you gave it to me. I'd sell it instantly and buy a 64 Galaxie 500XL fastback with the money. :) Or a C-type replica ?

Or if it was enough money, maybe something from the thirties. I'd almost be happy driving a T, but top end is a little too slow. And the brakes leave something to be desired. But otherwise, they work fine.
 
No he did not and you are putting words in his mouth. You made me go look; no, you are making a straw man to knock down. He never said old cars are better than new. I don't totally agree with his viewpoint, he seems to want a car to last fifty years, but that wasn't the original message. Yes. Electronics will make current cars totally unrepairable in, I dunno, let's say twenty years ?

Is that a problem ? Not to me. But I'm not going to make up things he never said just so I can go on and on about how superior today's cars are to the olde dayes.

And personally, I wouldn't have one of today's cars if you gave it to me. I'd sell it instantly and buy a 64 Galaxie 500XL fastback with the money. :) Or a C-type replica ?

Or if it was enough money, maybe something from the thirties. I'd almost be happy driving a T, but top end is a little too slow. And the brakes leave something to be desired. But otherwise, they work fine.


Ah- the trusty “straw man”.

““No modern (read recent) car should be considered. They all have far too much electronics to be sustainable economically.”

So I take it you believe he is suggesting bicycles or walking?

He is stating unequivocally that a class of vehicle outside of that noted is more desirable.
That is- ‘older is better than newer’.

I am not “making this up”.
He did state that junk yard are filling up with the most modern of vehicles the EV’s

Look- I’ll take your comments to mean I’ve said enough to make my point and you are probably right.
I will leave it be.
 
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I am sorry to read of your health issues. I have an adult daughter who is high functioning autistic. As a result, while she can do quite well in the world, she will never be able to drive a car. Hence, she relies on public transit, which, in our region is quite a time consuming proposition. Or, she resorts to Uber, which is often another problem due to unavailability in our region. Having knowledge of what our daughter goes thru to get to and from work, your need for a car is more pressing than a lot of people's.

As for some ideas on buying a car:
-I try to buy cars sometime after the New Year. My reasoning is that the dealers have inventory out on their lots which has top be kept cleaned off from snow and moved around the lots to allow for snow plowing. Keeping that inventory looking good costs them more than it did in the good weather.

-People's checking accounts and budgets are often fairly flat having the expenditures for the Holidays and winter heating bills. Hence, live customers showing up to buy cars are scarcer.

-Salesmen at the car dealers work on a precarious basis, a gamble. A car salesman desperate to make a sale poured it out to me years ago. Basically, a car salesman is told they must sell a certain number of cars each week to keep their 'desk' or job with the dealership. At the start of each new year, the salesmen are allowed to draw a salary to help them start the new year, knowing sales are fairly flat at that time. This salary is a 'draw' or loan made against future commissions on sales they (hopefully) will make. This salary/loan is made by the automobile company's financial end (GMAC, Ford, Toyota, etc). The loan has interest and that compounds rather quickly. Sharks feeding on sharks. The salesmen are anxious to start making sales as quickly as possible to avoid drawing a salary and the resulting interest. Right after the New Year, the salesmen are hungriest, in my opinion.

-In many dealerships, the new year's inventory is already on the lot, so leftover cars and cars used for demonstrations need to be moved. If a dealer has last year's models still on the lot when the new year's models arrive, they are usually more motivated to make deals to move them out.

-Another avenue to explore are cars which have come off lease plans. Dealers often take these cars and go thru them, then provide a manufacturer's warranty on them. We bought my wife's RAV 4 that way, and our son bought his Sonata that way. Another wrinkle to this is when dealers take a vehicle of a make they do not represent in trade. Bigger dealers will go thru these cars and provide a warranty package equivalent to a manufacturer's warranty.

We tend to keep our cars and light trucks until they are starting to 'nickel and dime' us with repairs due to age/very high mileage. My wife and I are partial to Toyota.
About the only design feature I am wary of is the CRV, or whatever the car makers call it. The infinitely variable ratio drives do not sit well in my mind. These drives use a series of endless steel bands with moveable teeth on them and variable pitch sheaves. A conventional belt drive puts the belt in tension. These drives push the belt, by compressing the moveable teeth tight together. All the while, the steel bands are flexing. I find myself thinking of bandsaw blades, and how, sooner or later, welded bandsaw blades do break from metal fatigue. The other car we avoid is Subaru. The engines in them are short lived when compared to Toyota, needing pre-emptive repairs (timing chains or belts) at around 80K miles. Also not particularly fuel efficient. We go for cars with conventional automatic transmissions driving thru gears rather than some steel belt system. We also go for inlne engines rather than the designs used by Subaru. Properly maintained, a Toyota, Nissan, or Honda (and likely some of the other makes) will give at least 200,000 miles. I do not think you can go too wrong in sticking with Toyota, Nissan, or Honda. I know there is some urgency to your situation, but waiting for winter will offer some leverage in bargaining for a car.
 
I am sorry to read of your health issues. I have an adult daughter who is high functioning autistic. As a result, while she can do quite well in the world, she will never be able to drive a car. Hence, she relies on public transit, which, in our region is quite a time consuming proposition. Or, she resorts to Uber, which is often another problem due to unavailability in our region. Having knowledge of what our daughter goes thru to get to and from work, your need for a car is more pressing than a lot of people's.

As for some ideas on buying a car:
-I try to buy cars sometime after the New Year. My reasoning is that the dealers have inventory out on their lots which has top be kept cleaned off from snow and moved around the lots to allow for snow plowing. Keeping that inventory looking good costs them more than it did in the good weather.

-People's checking accounts and budgets are often fairly flat having the expenditures for the Holidays and winter heating bills. Hence, live customers showing up to buy cars are scarcer.

-Salesmen at the car dealers work on a precarious basis, a gamble. A car salesman desperate to make a sale poured it out to me years ago. Basically, a car salesman is told they must sell a certain number of cars each week to keep their 'desk' or job with the dealership. At the start of each new year, the salesmen are allowed to draw a salary to help them start the new year, knowing sales are fairly flat at that time. This salary is a 'draw' or loan made against future commissions on sales they (hopefully) will make. This salary/loan is made by the automobile company's financial end (GMAC, Ford, Toyota, etc). The loan has interest and that compounds rather quickly. Sharks feeding on sharks. The salesmen are anxious to start making sales as quickly as possible to avoid drawing a salary and the resulting interest. Right after the New Year, the salesmen are hungriest, in my opinion.

-In many dealerships, the new year's inventory is already on the lot, so leftover cars and cars used for demonstrations need to be moved. If a dealer has last year's models still on the lot when the new year's models arrive, they are usually more motivated to make deals to move them out.

-Another avenue to explore are cars which have come off lease plans. Dealers often take these cars and go thru them, then provide a manufacturer's warranty on them. We bought my wife's RAV 4 that way, and our son bought his Sonata that way. Another wrinkle to this is when dealers take a vehicle of a make they do not represent in trade. Bigger dealers will go thru these cars and provide a warranty package equivalent to a manufacturer's warranty.

We tend to keep our cars and light trucks until they are starting to 'nickel and dime' us with repairs due to age/very high mileage. My wife and I are partial to Toyota.
About the only design feature I am wary of is the CRV, or whatever the car makers call it. The infinitely variable ratio drives do not sit well in my mind. These drives use a series of endless steel bands with moveable teeth on them and variable pitch sheaves. A conventional belt drive puts the belt in tension. These drives push the belt, by compressing the moveable teeth tight together. All the while, the steel bands are flexing. I find myself thinking of bandsaw blades, and how, sooner or later, welded bandsaw blades do break from metal fatigue. The other car we avoid is Subaru. The engines in them are short lived when compared to Toyota, needing pre-emptive repairs (timing chains or belts) at around 80K miles. Also not particularly fuel efficient. We go for cars with conventional automatic transmissions driving thru gears rather than some steel belt system. We also go for inlne engines rather than the designs used by Subaru. Properly maintained, a Toyota, Nissan, or Honda (and likely some of the other makes) will give at least 200,000 miles. I do not think you can go too wrong in sticking with Toyota, Nissan, or Honda. I know there is some urgency to your situation, but waiting for winter will offer some leverage in bargaining for a car.
Joe, I think you mean CVT- which is a continuously variable transmission.
these date to 1879, so its not exactly a new idea. In the beginning, they were called Reeves Drives. Rings a bell, eh?
Subaru, Ford, and Fiat have been selling cars with CVTs since the late 80s, and there were definitely issues with the first generation.
But 30 plus years of development in millions of cars worldwide means they are pretty reliable by now.
These days, they put em in Cadillacs, Audis, Jeeps, Infinitis, Lexus, Mercedes, Fords and Chevies, and most japanese and korean cars. If they broke all the time, its dubious that the Germans would be putting em in their top end luxury sedans.


I have been driving a Honda with a CVT since 2015, and it has been problem free, and I get 40 plus miles per gallon with it. NO, its no ferrari, but it can get out of its own way on the interstate just fine.
I am old enough to have owned a 54 GMC pickup with the infamous 2 speed Powerglide.
Now there was a POS.
Everything that is new is potentially problematic, and, yes, 50 years later, I kinda sorta trust slushboxes, but really, the danger of a CVT failing is less than all the automatics on 60s cars that I used to own. There used to be a dozen auto tranny rebuild shops in every city, because, well, they failed, regularly. 60s auto trannies frequently needed rebuilds at 70k or so, less if you drove em aggressively.

PS- he already bought a low mileage late model Honda sedan. And, I hate to break it to you, but it has a CVT...
 
Ah- the trusty “straw man”.
If you didn't do it, you wouldn't have to deal with being called on it. You don't read worth squat.

““No modern (read recent) car should be considered. They all have far too much electronics to be sustainable economically.”
Yes, he said that. His version of "sustained" was explained as a million kilometers. I think that's kind of wacked but it is not the same as "old cars are better". He is talking economics.

More economical is not the same as better. It's quite possible he is correct. It's quite possible that a 57 Belaire is going to be a lot more economical than any new car. Come to think of it, the 78 Fiesta we had is definitely more economical ($3750 out the door) than any new car, and you could keep it running into the next century, no problem. There's model T's still on the road. They are for sure more economical than a 2024 Honda.

Can you figure that out ? It's TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

He said new cars full of electronics will not be repairable. In my experience that is definitely true. Several other people's as well. You may consider that as claiming old cars are "better" but it ain't what he said.

When you put your incorrect interpretation into someone else's mouth, that is called a "straw man" which is what you did, therefore you get to live with it.

So I take it you believe he is suggesting bicycles or walking?
In fact, at one point he did. So what ? He doesn't like electronics, that's obvious. Imo, he goes over the top. But this fifty-five pages of shit wacking on him for something he never said is what we in the trade call "dishonest".

He is stating unequivocally that a class of vehicle outside of that noted is more desirable.
That is- ‘older is better than newer’.
Learn to read. Different words have different meanings, that's why we have different words. Otherwise, no point.

I am not “making this up”.
Yes you are. Totally. Please read the written words, not the voices in your head.

He did state that junk yard are filling up with the most modern of vehicles the EV’s
N period O period. The words were "Not known by many, but the amount of scrap electric cars in junk yards is very high."

Point out for me the words "filling up". Thank you. What does "amount" mean ? If the general pop of ev's is 5% and junk yards have 10% ev's, does that mean "the amount is high" ? If junk yards have a hard time disposing of lithium batteries so the proportion is unbalanced, does that make the amount high ? Is he totally wrong and there's no ev's in any junkyard anywhere ? I dunno. You dunno. But what he wrote is not what you are claiming.

He also said "Only major assembly replacement can be done in the field, even by dealers. This is the primary reason so many electric vehicles are found in the junk yard." Direct quote. What does "so many" mean ? Is he including 'so many' of the early ones that did go to junkyards young ? Those are the only two places junk yards are mentioned. Please point out the words "filling up". Thank you.

I do not know if any of the junkyard claims are true, you do not know if they are true. I do not care enough to go look. But at least I can read a person's words and understand what they are trying to express, without making shit up then going on for pages and pages refuting stuff they never said.

I do not believe his complaint is valid - but it's not what you guys keep going on about. Reading comprehension, D.

I don't generally agree with mr steve-l ... but I don't like seeing people get beat up over stuff they never said. His meaning was pretty clear and his observation 100% correct. His conclusions, maybe short-sighted in that there's more to life than economics but there's little doubt that a 1934 Ford is going to be much more economical over its lifespan (eternal) than any new car (maybe twenty years, max).
 
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But 30 plus years of development in millions of cars worldwide means they are pretty reliable by now.
These days, they put em in Cadillacs, Audis, Jeeps, Infinitis, Lexus, Mercedes, Fords and Chevies, and most japanese and korean cars.

Yeah but.....

CVT's have had enough issues over the years that many auto manufacturers are going back to standard-design automatics---although with many speeds: 8, 9, or even 10 or more. These fancy, shift-a-lot automatics can often coax better fuel economy than a CVT.

Jatco (Japanese Automatic Transmission Company) provides CVT's to Nissan and Subaru, and they were junky shit in the 2000's. Bad CVT's cost the car companies millions in warranty repairs...and they're still dealing with the reputation hit.

Toyota gets their CVT's from subsidiary Aisin, and I reckon they work fairly well.

Honda builds their own CVT's (have always went their own way in trannys), but like other makers, have went back to multi-speed transmissions on many models.

It doesn't help the "CVT cause" that drivers don't like how they drive, with the motor maintaining steady rpm's, and no sense of shifting during driving. We want to feel the downshift and engine revs when punching it!

ToolCat
 
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I love Hondas and Toyotas for reliability. I bought a Kia Optima in 2012. It is well engineered and now with 108,000 miles it has been virtually trouble free.

I think Kia and Hyundai got a bad reputation (well deserved) when they first came to the U.S., but are good cars now.

Kia-Hyundai have engine failures across all platforms that are well documented from the 2009-2022 model years.

I’m not going to bet my money in it, certainly not for anything out of warranty. Those who were still in their warranty period had to fight K-H tooth and nail.
 
I can't buy a decent battery for a seven year old, top of the line iPhone 7+. Can't even buy a serviceable battery for my iPhone 4. Both use lithium ion batteries, same as all phones since the flip-phone days.

The exact same thing is coming for your electric cars. And when they decide that "we don't have an app update for your car" and the government requires the car to be "connected" for billing your mileage and the chargers require you to have an app to be "in network" all of it will stop working. Period.

Can't do that? Oh really?

 
I can't buy a decent battery for a seven year old, top of the line iPhone 7+. Can't even buy a serviceable battery for my iPhone 4.


More then acceptable batteries availible on Amazon and Ebay

I have to replace a battery on an Iphone 6S soon

I'll check the reviews on Amazon, probably will not buy the absolute cheapest, replace the battery and screen, and squeeze a few more years out of it.
 
More then acceptable batteries availible on Amazon and Ebay

I have to replace a battery on an Iphone 6S soon

I'll check the reviews on Amazon, probably will not buy the absolute cheapest, replace the battery and screen, and squeeze a few more years out of it.
I wish. The 7 is on battery number three and every one has been a bigger PoS. Didn't buy the cheap one either. Looked for a brand name with good reviews. No luck. This battery is on its way out after a year of service. I fear I will have to replace the phone after this one because...

The last one for the 4 arrived dead as a post. Same buying strategy. The seller couldn't guarantee anything else they had in stock was any better. That battery will charge up and is dead again after maybe 10 hours of sitting, with no connection at all. It's my music source in the shop. It lives in a dock when in use. I don't dare leave it in the dock because the last one came out swollen and I don't need a fire.

Also also wik: was given a brand-brand-new Mophie lithium power bank that was old stock. Dead out of the package and would not hold a charge. Not a single usable cycle out of it.

My confidence in lithium ion batteries is completely shot.
 
Not known by many, but the amount of scrap electric cars in junk yards is very high



I'll have to go past the local Junk yard, or I can check the inventory, that shows
NO TESLAS
8 PRIUSES
NO CHEVY VOLTS

Priuses are 2006/2006/2010/2006/2008/2007/2008/2007
So could be battery related :eek: :eek: :eek:
Or could just as easily be crash damage
Or could stolen/trashed unfixable who knows

Not exactly high. For a scrap yard that has hundreds of cars.

Not going to waste anymore time to prove good ol Stevey is talking out of his backside.

And as for his aversion to Electronics, maybe it's me, I've never had significant trouble with car/motorcycle electronics on high mileage 20+ year old vehicles, just haven't. I keep a Cam Sensor in the glove box of my pickup with the 7.3L diesel, that's a known Issue. It's been in the glove box, with wrench for 14 years, probably will never need to be replaced.

I've had the ignition/spark plug modules fail on a Lexus LS430 I have
No big deal (probably is to some) I get the scanner out, find out which one it is. Drive to Autozone/O'reilly's/Pepboys and get a replacement. Most can be changed in the Parking lot. 20-30 minutes later I'm getting on with life.

no teslas.jpgPRIUS EVS.jpgCHEVY VOLT.jpg

of course there's the inevitable question.

Yea there must be just a handfull of cars in that wrecking yard.

Latest Google Maps image. Yea just a hand full (I guestimate 1500+)

ECOLOGY.jpg
 

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I wish. The 7 is on battery number three and every one has been a bigger PoS. Didn't buy the cheap one either. Looked for a brand name with good reviews. No luck. This battery is on its way out after a year of service. I fear I will have to replace the phone after this one because...

The last one for the 4 arrived dead as a post. Same buying strategy. The seller couldn't guarantee anything else they had in stock was any better. That battery will charge up and is dead again after maybe 10 hours of sitting, with no connection at all. It's my music source in the shop. It lives in a dock when in use. I don't dare leave it in the dock because the last one came out swollen and I don't need a fire.

Also also wik: was given a brand-brand-new Mophie lithium power bank that was old stock. Dead out of the package and would not hold a charge. Not a single usable cycle out of it.

My confidence in lithium ion batteries is completely shot.

You guys have the worst luck

I've replaced a battery on an Iphone 5 and got 2 years trouble free service until I forgot the password.

So your going to 86 the Iphone 7 because you don't want to buy another battery and invest the 1 hour it takes to replace it?

Now what's your definition of battery on the way out? The battery on my Iphone 6 has been on the way out for a year. Has to be charged, or on a charging cable twice a day. Sure it's moderately inconvenient, but so what? It's a bit like riding a motorcycle with a small tank and a thirst for gas. Just make sure you always fill up before riding up into the canyons.
 
So your going to 86 the Iphone 7 because you don't want to buy another battery and invest the 1 hour it takes to replace it?
I replaced all the batteries in all of my phones. I have a stack of the seals for resealing the case and all the tools. I can do the battery in 15 minutes. I don't have a reason to scrap the phone but, I may not have a choice.

Now what's your definition of battery on the way out? The battery on my Iphone 6 has been on the way out for a year. Has to be charged, or on a charging cable twice a day.
Yeah, that's not acceptable. It has to last all day at a trade show or out to visit a shop or whatever. I'm not hammering away on it but, I have to be able to use it a few times an hour, throughout the day.

The current battery in the 7+ says it's 100% in the 'life' screen but, it's obviously dying. The phone goes black somewhere around 15-18% indicated charge on the screen. So it has no idea what's really going on. It's getting to where--yes--I need to charge it in the car or somewhere else some time during the day or it won't make it.

The OEM battery lasted nearly two solid days of my 'normal' use when new. If this were a car battery, I'd describe it as:
  • OEM battery range when new: advertised range 400 miles (actual 350)
  • OEM battery range when I replaced it: 100 miles
  • First replacement new: 250 miles
  • First replacement when removed: 80 miles
  • Subsequent replacements new: 150 miles
  • Subsequent replacements when replaced: 80 miles
The supposed 'new' batteries are getting closer and closer to the replacement threshold with each purchase.
 








 
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