What are smaller job shops doing for job routers/travelers?

[scrapNcrash]

I am a small shop owner doing job shop work and production runs. We run into the problem of remembering how we ran jobs because each operations will have a separate programming file. It’s a pain to click through each programming file to remember how we ran a job and we’d like to have one router to quickly tell us how we ran it. Also, I am growing my shop so our team is expected to go to 10 people. Right now, I’m having to chase down every order in the shop and instruct the employee what’s needing to be done next on each one. From the dozens of threads I’ve read on here—every machinist seems to hate routers. I am both a machinist, programmer, and shop owner so I’m having a pain focusing on my job and keep other people busy at their workstations because they’re constantly having to be told what to do. So for that, we would like to create detailed work instructions for each step of the process. I have experience doing this as I worked as a process engineer for a large machine shop and all I did was create routers on how parts were to be made from scratch to finish. Now the question is, is there a template, excel sheet, access database we can use. We have a bid from JobBoss/E2 which have merged now. That may be our end game but for now I just want to create detailed job routers/instructions so I don’t have to chase jobs down and tell guys what to do next on a job. I’m small enough to where scheduling isn’t an issue—I can just tell the guys-“we are running this then that then that” but I’m large enough to where I can’t handle giving step by step instructions to each machinist/operator.

My initial plan is to create a Microsoft Access database to create this relational database to track customers, PO’s, SO’s, and WO’s. I can then relate part numbers to routing sequences. Then when a WO is created for a PN, it can copy over routing sequences onto a report. Then I can print the report. Am I overlooking anything. Anyone having this same problem. I understand the machinists in this community REALLY hate job travelers but from a management POV, I need a way to communicate with multiple people without running around with my head cutoff. Open to all ideas and clean sheet ideas if I’m thinking of this the wrong way. Thanks

 

[Booze Daily]

When I had employees my routers were all the steps required to complete the job without missing something. Not super detailed.

Ie
10. Purch. 1” dia. 1018. 132 pcs per bar

20. Mill. Mill complete using jaws in bin D-4
Leave .015 on thickness for grind
stock.

30. Purch. Heat treat

40. Grind. Grind thickness.

Etc


The highly detailed instructions were listed on the setup sheets along with pictures. Things like tool stick out, endmills with special corner radius, D comp values for various close tolerance features. Etc.

I also bought a shelving rack that held about 100 plastic bins where dedicated tooling/fixtures were kept. The bin location was noted on the router and setup sheets.

Keep in mind that as you grow you may end up needing to be ISO, so better to put processes in place now than have to overhaul your whole system down the road.

It’s just me now, no employees, so I don’t do any of that shit now.

 

[F35Machinist]

I have a pretty detailed Access database that handles all of those things as well as everything else for AS9100/ISO9001. Quotes are linked to customer POs to W/O to invoices/COCs/packing slips etc. and lets me spend the minimum possible time on paperwork. If you are interested, I can sell you a copy. The price is a thousand bucks flat and you only pay if you decide to use it.

 

[ttrager]

We have an old version of E2 from Shoptech, and we use the router's printed from that system. Small shop, 12 machinists + support/admin.

 

[The Dude]

I can say this shortly: easiest way might be to start with Excel and, once you get it "pretty good", then go to Access. In Excel, you should have multiple worksheets in ideally just one workbook. Worst part is that it's hard for multi-users so you may have one office person and then print work order/routers. My joke on Excel is they make it way too capable/functional so that people use it "too deep" before finally (hopefully) going to a DB system for which Access is cheap, pretty easy to learn/program and very functional with multiple users via a server. The server will cost you $$$, the DB will cost you time, but they will save you so much time on the floor and dealing with customers once you get it going.

Good luck!
The Dude

 

[hanermo]

The right way to do it is to use excel with it´s excellent very easy to use and very easy to customise user interface.
And then link it to a real db like postgres sql.
It´s about like a truck compared to a handcart.

Access is very easy and very limited and very poor in endless ways.

Endless people will sell you a tiny linux box server, and even set up postgres for you.
It´s cheap.
200-400$ for your own tiny server.

And your own server can automagically update a remote cloud postgres db, so that you always have access to your data and can roll-back if your own server dies, is stolen, the building burns whatever.
About 300-500€ per year.

Postgres has very good features like transactions, commits, rollbacks, tracking -- that access does not.
It also is natively multi-user, security-conscious, and actually secure - that access is not.

Postgres is about 200% harder to set up, once, and 50% harder to get to work with, starting, and much better and much easier to use once you are actually doing stuff.
Endless excellent graphical tools exist for working with postgres or oracle.
About 100$.

Recommendation.
Get your own 300$ linux server with postgres installed, get the grapical db management tools for 100$, link these to excel as front-end.
It is really, really, really a vastly better solution.

I used to do lots of big stuff with access long ago, well paid, and all sorts of critical IT stuff later on, large-scale, PG.
After thousands of hours, and lots of experience, the above is my recommendation.
It´s only a little bit harder than access, but will actually avoid about 90% of endless nit-picking problems You soon run into.

You really really want one of the graphical db tools to create your db, manage it, and stuff.

It would probably take about 4 hours for me to remotely set up everything on the linux box, make a basic db (clients, orders, stuff) , and to also link a excel front end into it.
1200$.
You can probably get endless local PC and IT shops to do so for 1/4 the cost.

If anyone thinks they can do better with access and or cheaper, have at it.
You will be wrong.
User-hours have a cost, it´s not shop rate, but it is missed earnings and productive time, 50$ is probably the minimum/hr.

 

[hanermo]

This is actually a very good deal / offer for most people.
The price is fair, even generous, and anything shop-built will cost at least 3-6k.

Work-hours are expensive and in limited supply.

If you are open to a commercial arrangement, I could port it to a real SQL version -- and You would get a proper comission on any future sales made.
Not really looking for more work, and definitely not looking for up-front payments.

I think there is a good market, I´m pretty well clued on it, and the first to move usually get´s the cheese.
I suspect You may sell 1-n, meaning less than nn, and most will actually get a better product than they use.
Let me know...

A polite refusal is fine, so is silence.

As said - I recommend this offer on grounds of use, workshop practice, and stuff ..
(the access tech I am not so happy with).

I have a pretty detailed Access database that handles all of those things as well as everything else for AS9100/ISO9001. Quotes are linked to customer POs to W/O to invoices/COCs/packing slips etc. and lets me spend the minimum possible time on paperwork. If you are interested, I can sell you a copy. The price is a thousand bucks flat and you only pay if you decide to use it.

 

[William Payne]

My boss has a paper trail folder for every single job the company has ever done. Any info is in that folder. If it is a repeat of a previous job the previous job number will be noted so that that can be gone back to and referenced. It sounds nuts but it is incredible being able to go back to job 001 and having all the info if that customer randomly comes in wanting that job done again.

 

[sbrooks]

I have a pretty detailed Access database that handles all of those things as well as everything else for AS9100/ISO9001. Quotes are linked to customer POs to W/O to invoices/COCs/packing slips etc. and lets me spend the minimum possible time on paperwork. If you are interested, I can sell you a copy. The price is a thousand bucks flat and you only pay if you decide to use it.

Could you send me an example of this? Im looking for something simple for my job shop thats not time consuming and complicated like job boss is

 

[F35Machinist]

This is actually a very good deal / offer for most people.
The price is fair, even generous, and anything shop-built will cost at least 3-6k.

Work-hours are expensive and in limited supply.

If you are open to a commercial arrangement, I could port it to a real SQL version -- and You would get a proper comission on any future sales made.
Not really looking for more work, and definitely not looking for up-front payments.

I think there is a good market, I´m pretty well clued on it, and the first to move usually get´s the cheese.
I suspect You may sell 1-n, meaning less than nn, and most will actually get a better product than they use.
Let me know...

A polite refusal is fine, so is silence.

As said - I recommend this offer on grounds of use, workshop practice, and stuff ..
(the access tech I am not so happy with).

Thanks for the offer, but I'm currently slowly working on an SQL version myself with some added features that access would never be able to do. I plan on giving it away for free when I'm done and having some paid option to make money. I will post here when I'm done, but it may be more than a year until I'm ready. I asked for payment for the access files because I didn't want to waste my time with people asking me to send them stuff.

 

[F35Machinist]

Could you send me an example of this? Im looking for something simple for my job shop thats not time consuming and complicated like job boss is

Below are some screen shots of the main menu and individual menus. I used purchase orders as an example. You fill in the fields and it gets you a printable PO. All of the POs are recorded. Later on, when the parts arrive you fill in a receiving inspection form and it auto-populates from your PO. Saves a lot of time.

 

[TFarrell9]

I'm curious why you have different files for different operations? Does the software you're using not allow for different toolpath/machine/setup groups?

Having all of your operations in one file is invaluably better for many reasons. If you import all of your setup components exactly how you run the job, you could go back to that file years later and easily follow how it was done in the past. Not only for order of operations, but setup as well of course.

Also for what it's worth, we're a small job shop as well and use jobboss to create routers/travelers that have a general outline of the entire job.

 

[Fadriver]

I am a small shop owner doing job shop work and production runs. We run into the problem of remembering how we ran jobs because each operations will have a separate programming file. It’s a pain to click through each programming file to remember how we ran a job and we’d like to have one router to quickly tell us how we ran it. Also, I am growing my shop so our team is expected to go to 10 people. Right now, I’m having to chase down every order in the shop and instruct the employee what’s needing to be done next on each one. From the dozens of threads I’ve read on here—every machinist seems to hate routers. I am both a machinist, programmer, and shop owner so I’m having a pain focusing on my job and keep other people busy at their workstations because they’re constantly having to be told what to do. So for that, we would like to create detailed work instructions for each step of the process. I have experience doing this as I worked as a process engineer for a large machine shop and all I did was create routers on how parts were to be made from scratch to finish. Now the question is, is there a template, excel sheet, access database we can use. We have a bid from JobBoss/E2 which have merged now. That may be our end game but for now I just want to create detailed job routers/instructions so I don’t have to chase jobs down and tell guys what to do next on a job. I’m small enough to where scheduling isn’t an issue—I can just tell the guys-“we are running this then that then that” but I’m large enough to where I can’t handle giving step by step instructions to each machinist/operator.

My initial plan is to create a Microsoft Access database to create this relational database to track customers, PO’s, SO’s, and WO’s. I can then relate part numbers to routing sequences. Then when a WO is created for a PN, it can copy over routing sequences onto a report. Then I can print the report. Am I overlooking anything. Anyone having this same problem. I understand the machinists in this community REALLY hate job travelers but from a management POV, I need a way to communicate with multiple people without running around with my head cutoff. Open to all ideas and clean sheet ideas if I’m thinking of this the wrong way. Thanks

Maybe solution delegate, as owner maybe need to concentrate in getting more work, balancing
budget etc, my ex-worker works in a place of around 20 guys and have a guy full time guy doing that task, he chases parts, controls paperwork as far programs, ops, like paint, anodizing he knows where those parts are and date needed, they ran 3 shifts, lots of prototypes, owner knows programming but mainly managing keeping workers happy, they keep growing, I guess owner
well connected, good talker and knows how to deliver

 

[Aejgx6]

Anybody feel like Darrin is back?

 

[USA Precision Arms]

I have a pretty detailed Access database that handles all of those things as well as everything else for AS9100/ISO9001. Quotes are linked to customer POs to W/O to invoices/COCs/packing slips etc. and lets me spend the minimum possible time on paperwork. If you are interested, I can sell you a copy. The price is a thousand bucks flat and you only pay if you decide to use it.

I"m very interested in this. Shoot me an email if you would. would like to talk to you more. [email protected]

 

[rjwalker1973]

It is also a good idea to have notes in all programs with the toolist, workoffset 0, any comp or tool length instruction and create a set up page from those notes to keep as a digital and hardcopy.

 

[Bill in PA]

May not be relevant to you, but what I do:

Every job has an unique job number. I have a PC set up with a touch screen that the user punches in and out of with the job #. When the job is finished, I print out a report with the times. I then take the stack of papers along with the invoice and scan them. I store the PDF in a history sub-folder under the part #. It is easy to see what was done in the past along with time and costs. That way all hand-written notes are saved. Sometimes I will need to leave notes for the future about how to better run the part if it comes back through again.

My memory stinks and many jobs only repeat every few years. Also makes it easier if I have to quote a part similar to one done in the past.

Bill