What do you think of equipment and tools made in China?

[eKretz]

What I am wondering is why this thread has not been closed. OK, it is not discussing any particular, cheap Chinese machine or product. But still, I wonder. Is it possible that the board's policy may be changing in the near future? Or, perhaps not.

Because the guy who made the rules and is capable of closing threads in this forum section hasn't gotten around to it, I expect. And no, I don't think it will be.

 

[Bill D]

Not closed because it is a legitimate question of is it possible to buy quality tools. Much name brand stuff has been farmed out to other countries and, for many, quality suffered. People complain about Starrett tool quality from Brazil.
Thirty years ago buying a Starrett tool meant it would be a quality tool right out of the box. Now how can you tell? Buy a Mitutoyo Tool from a non full service approved dealer and it is most likely a forgery that is not well made or accurate.
China makes rockets to space and fighter jets. They have quality tools to make this stuff. Their machinists and factory owners know how to choose good tools from what is for sale inside China. I am sure they do not have to buy a truckload of calipers and return all but two or three good ones.
Why do quality China brands not use their name to build their quality reputation? Is it poor copyright and trademark laws?
The first Honda cars were a bad joke with two cylinder air cooled engines. But they kept the name and slowly improved until they are proud to tell you this is a Honda car. Not some made up brand that will be changed next year.
Sthil chainsaws and power tools are only sold by approved dealers at approved prices. No made in China copies are allowed into the country. The vigorously send lawyers after makers of copies and sellers of copies. Price fixing laws are got around somehow?

 

[Bill D]

When you buy stuff there is an implied warranty. Buy a set of drills, even from horrible fright, and there is a implied warranty that they can be used to drill holes in metal. This is implied since that is why people buy drill bits. If you sell them as "drill bits" they must be able to do that job.
It is not clear that there is any penalty if the goods do not perform other then a full refund. But how long should they last before needing to be sharpened. How to settle they were not abused and worn out by overwork with no cutting oil at too high a rpm?
Most warranties say they will refund the purchase price but no consideration for incidental or consequential damages. if a put a cheap sparkplug in my airplane engine and it fails over the ocean and everyone dies how responsible is the plug maker?
Bill D

 

[Ries]

A lot of chinese products sold in the US have US brand names. For instance, Lincoln welders, a lot of Caterpillar products, Kohler plumbing fixtures, Milwaukee power tools - those are often chinese products. And the large chinese company General Motors now sells their Buicks and Cadillacs here. They sell more cars in China than they do in the USA.

 

[Rob F.]

I saw a cute preteen girl at the market wearing a shirt that said " made in USA from Mexican parts" She was latina.

Did you sniff her hair too?

 

[standardparts]

"What do you think of equipment and tools made in China?"​

At this point as far as I'm concerned is if the product good enough to fill the need. There was a time and a job that I was employed in that it was pretty much Snap-On hand tools or nothing. That whole deal has long since passed for a bunch of reasons.....
Looked it up today....A Snap-On 1/2 inch drive standard ratchet #S80A is $198.00 (MSRP) so I'm guessing a whole lot of entry level mechanics may be willing to accept a less expensive product.

Bought a set of Danner work boots a year or so ago. They have proven to be good boots...not exceptional...but good enough for my purpose and budget. They were 'cheap' Danners at $265.00 and labeled assembled in the U.S.A with imported materials. I guess the imported materials were good enough to put the Danner name on.

I guess "China Bad" still is a thing with many, and that is O.K, but China however bad they may appear are not stupid in business. Pretty simple to do a search and see how many other countries they are investing in.

So, what do I think of the stuff made in China...(with a shrug) I'm fine with it.

 

[Rob F.]

A lot of chinese products sold in the US have US brand names. For instance, Lincoln welders, a lot of Caterpillar products, Kohler plumbing fixtures, Milwaukee power tools - those are often chinese products. And the large chinese company General Motors now sells their Buicks and Cadillacs here. They sell more cars in China than they do in the USA.

Yes and everyone is blaming China for this when really they need to blame these big companies who seem to care more about making a quick buck over keeping the American economy strong. Now we have a much reduced skilled workforce and nowhere near enough factories etc to even make things in if the workforce was there.
So is it the companies or the government who are to blame? Maybe the apathetic American public who let the government get beholden to the companies lobbyists? The "wallmart" model seems to have been the biggest cause of anti China sentiment due to poor quality parts. That model was the US company will tell the China factory that we will buy x number of products from you at this low price. Not caring that instead of ceramic for a coffee cup they used dried toothpaste, all it had to do was look good on the shelf so the company could make a sale, always lower prices after all.

 

[technocrat]

Yes and everyone is blaming China for this when really they need to blame these big companies who seem to care more about making a quick buck over keeping the American economy strong. Now we have a much reduced skilled workforce and nowhere near enough factories etc to even make things in if the workforce was there.
So is it the companies or the government who are to blame? Maybe the apathetic American public who let the government get beholden to the companies lobbyists? The "wallmart" model seems to have been the biggest cause of anti China sentiment due to poor quality parts. That model was the US company will tell the China factory that we will buy x number of products from you at this low price. Not caring that instead of ceramic for a coffee cup they used dried toothpaste, all it had to do was look good on the shelf so the company could make a sale, always lower prices after all.

Part of this problem is the commodity nature of the items. Often no one in the supply chain knows what the item is, how it is used or the difference between good and bad. It is just a part number or stock keeping unit, maybe with a sales brief to help to sell the item. We a headed towards a global catalog of items which many consumers and regulators think is all that is available.
I'm sure the likes of Cresent in the good old days actually used their own tools in their own factories.

 

[604Pook]

I buy the tool that fits the need of the work I am doing. I typically aim for something that will last and I can use for a long time. But sometimes I need something to do an OK job once, then its the cheapest tool that will work. I like buying made in Canada or made in the USA if I can and its a decent tool, but sometimes they are expensive crap too or reboxed made in china product. So I guess I just buy what fits the job best regardless of where it comes from.

China will make stuff as good as you are willing to pay for. A lot of the garbage tools is because the western companies importing did the math and made more $ buying cheap garbage and replacing the odd warranty claim with another piece of garbage.

 

[gmach10]

Can't make this shit up. I was looking for two B12 drill arbors, no one had them except Amazon. Decent price fast turn around. For the hell of it before i mounted the chucks I figured I check for runout. The good one was only .004 out the other .010 out. And the brand name on the box was, wait for it......IGONGYOU. I got gonged alright.

 

[technocrat]

Chinese junk belongs in ocean

 

[reggie_obe]

Chinese junk belongs in ocean

The OP and his post with the his business link should have been given the boot.
Is Milacron now giving free advertising?

 

[EmGo]

Can't make this shit up. I was looking for two B12 drill arbors, no one had them except Amazon. Decent price fast turn around. For the hell of it before i mounted the chucks I figured I check for runout. The good one was only .004 out the other .010 out. And the brand name on the box was, wait for it......IGONGYOU. I got gonged alright.

I guess you're kind of young ? Never bought anything from Travers or MSC or Enco or any of those places, long before China ever shipped a Fisher-Price toy to the US ? Never bought a box of stuff at auction, all Made in USA from the sixties that was cheap junk ? Never had a chevy Vega ? This fantasy about "Made in USA so wonderful" is just a delusion from I guess people who were never there. There was good stuff, there was cheap stuff, just like from China or Korea or England or Poland or anywhere else.

And it would have been nice if you people had actually bought US stuff when it would have made a difference but all I heard was "Fanuc ! Fanuc !" and "Okuma ! Mazak !" Since you didn't cough up the bucks when it counted, you are welcome to keep silence now that it's too late.

In fact, right now there's threads here with people screaming at Haas, a US company, one of the only US companies still in this, for supposedly "supplying machines to Russia" without ever bothering to look into the facts first. So much for supporting US manufacturing. Or even being honest and fair.

One more thing while I'm on a roll The cheapass minilathes work fine if you could drill two holes in a straight line. For $500 what do you expect ? If you have any skill you can still make stuff on them. Maybe if you can't cut your way out of a wet paper bag, then you have to snivel. I have no problem with them. But I guess I'm the exception, instead of whining about a situation we ourselves created (service economy ! yay, no more nasty factory work !) and a past that never existed, I just try to move forward with what's available. (And no, I didn't create this world, in my shop were all US machines, around this very site there's only a few of us who appreciate US controls, US machines ... but don't let that stop you from mewling about a world you yourselves made.)

There's decent stuff these days in China. They don't try selling in the US because the market is too small, there's no point. Too far away, too much to invest for too little return, why ? when they can sell to a place instead that likes manufacturing and likes employment and does what it can to keep real estate and overhead costs low and has literally hundreds of cities with a population over a million and best of all, makes it easy. Why bother ?

 

[CarbideBob]

China sucks.
The worse part is that they now making world class winning stuff from the good places.

 

[rons]

A lot of chinese products sold in the US have US brand names. For instance, Lincoln welders, a lot of Caterpillar products, Kohler plumbing fixtures, Milwaukee power tools - those are often chinese products. And the large chinese company General Motors now sells their Buicks and Cadillacs here. They sell more cars in China than they do in the USA.

Payback. Let them buy US cars & trucks that breakdown.

 

[eKretz]

Payback. Let them buy US cars & trucks that breakdown.

Let me know when you find a car that doesn't *ever* break down. Closest I've ever owned was a Honda, and even those break down. Mine has a pretty bulletproof engine but after 25 years it's having some electrical gremlins.

 

[rons]

I Japanese electronics or US electronics was built for life support, guess which I would choose.
A Chinese electronics would be reserved for those who would jump from a bridge but don't have the transportation to get there.

Let me know when you find a car that doesn't *ever* break down. Closest I've ever owned was a Honda, and even those break down. Mine has a pretty bulletproof engine but after 25 years it's having some electrical gremlins.

 

[CarbideBob]

Let me know when you find a car that doesn't *ever* break down. Closest I've ever owned was a Honda, and even those break down. Mine has a pretty bulletproof engine but after 25 years it's having some electrical gremlins.

Think about that... 25 years.
A tool salesman may put on 40,000 plus per year on a car.

 

[standardparts]

I guess you're kind of young ? Never bought anything from Travers or MSC or Enco or any of those places, long before China ever shipped a Fisher-Price toy to the US ? Never bought a box of stuff at auction, all Made in USA from the sixties that was cheap junk ? Never had a chevy Vega ? This fantasy about "Made in USA so wonderful" is just a delusion from I guess people who were never there. There was good stuff, there was cheap stuff, just like from China or Korea or England or Poland or anywhere else.

And it would have been nice if you people had actually bought US stuff when it would have made a difference but all I heard was "Fanuc ! Fanuc !" and "Okuma ! Mazak !" Since you didn't cough up the bucks when it counted, you are welcome to keep silence now that it's too late.

In fact, right now there's threads here with people screaming at Haas, a US company, one of the only US companies still in this, for supposedly "supplying machines to Russia" without ever bothering to look into the facts first. So much for supporting US manufacturing. Or even being honest and fair.

One more thing while I'm on a roll The cheapass minilathes work fine if you could drill two holes in a straight line. For $500 what do you expect ? If you have any skill you can still make stuff on them. Maybe if you can't cut your way out of a wet paper bag, then you have to snivel. I have no problem with them. But I guess I'm the exception, instead of whining about a situation we ourselves created (service economy ! yay, no more nasty factory work !) and a past that never existed, I just try to move forward with what's available. (And no, I didn't create this world, in my shop were all US machines, around this very site there's only a few of us who appreciate US controls, US machines ... but don't let that stop you from mewling about a world you yourselves made.)

There's decent stuff these days in China. They don't try selling in the US because the market is too small, there's no point. Too far away, too much to invest for too little return, why ? when they can sell to a place instead that likes manufacturing and likes employment and does what it can to keep real estate and overhead costs low and has literally hundreds of cities with a population over a million and best of all, makes it easy. Why bother ?

"In fact, right now there's threads here with people screaming at Haas, a US company, one of the only US companies still in this"
Yeah, Haas bad. Read it on PM so it must be true.

 

[EmGo]

I Japanese electronics or US electronics was built for life support, guess which I would choose.

Oh riiiiight. You're talking to a guy who had a Louis-Allis ac motor drive that used to literally explode whenever it felt like it. And I remember Dad with the soldering iron inside the guts of the teevee more than once. Heck, the service guy at Sundstrand told me where to kick the control to get it running again. (Bill Corsin, anyone else remember him ? Cool guy.)

I've owned US electronics, don't try to shovel that shit in this direction. Some were good, some were garbage. In fact I had a $6,000 computer where the effing power supply (standard ol' peecee one) failed with no g-d chance to repair it because the jerk Americans at SGI just had to add a few little fragile, unreliable components which of course they never documented, so when the thing goes kabloom, there you are, flocked, with your five-times-as-expensive as it should be computer. They couldn't help themselves, for a few effing pennies it was bend over, rover to their customers. Thanks so much.

Did I mention you are full of hooey ? Unless it's going into space, most electronics everywhere are pretty crappy.