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What do you want young engineers/designers to know?

garyhlucas

Stainless
Joined
Oct 17, 2013
Location
New Jersey
That reading stuff? I’ve read the entire Thomas Register all 21 volumes, twice. McMaster Carr front to back three times.

The problem you guys are talking about I am working on, as a mentor for the local FIRST Robotics team. Most of you here should be mentors for one of the 7,000 or so teams in the US. Season just started and we have 8 weeks to design, build, program and test a robot that can cost up to $5,000.
 

plastikdreams

Diamond
Joined
May 31, 2011
Location
upstate nj
I did work for a robotics team years ago at a place I worked for. A good customer was involved with the team, I don't think we charged labor.

I'd do it but I can't have anyone in our building lol.
 

CarbideBob

Diamond
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Location
Flushing/Flint, Michigan
.
The problem you guys are talking about I am working on, as a mentor for the local FIRST Robotics team. Most of you here should be mentors for one of the 7,000 or so teams in the US. Season just started and we have 8 weeks to design, build, program and test a robot that can cost up to $5,000.
I thought seriously about doing that as I do so love to teach automation, robots, vision systems, senors and all that sort of stuff.
Add that the gal in the office and on machines was in FIRST robotic team for years on the support side,.... then I met some of the other "established mentors".
Oil and water the best way to put it.
Bob
 

garyhlucas

Stainless
Joined
Oct 17, 2013
Location
New Jersey
I thought seriously about doing that as I do so love to teach automation, robots, vision systems, senors and all that sort of stuff.
Add that the gal in the office and on machines was in FIRST robotic team for years on the support side,.... then I met some of the other "established mentors".
Oil and water the best way to put it.
Bob

Bob,
You are not entirely wrong, it can be tough. I kind of got lucky. One mentor left because of a new job and I was able to mentor the design committee on my own. Another that was more interested in showing the students how good he was at Mygyvering things moved to another school. Our team has an excellent and commited teacher running it, as demonstrated by us having over 60 students participating.

I’ve told everyone I have no interest in the game, only in passing on the real world skills they likely wouldn’t encounter until they finish college.

My grandson was on the team for 3 seasons. He is going to NJIT and works with me at my job summers and breaks doing automation projects. He busted his ass in high school taking extra college courses. So he started NJIT as a Junior! Two years to graduate at 19!! He also works a second job at Target. Got a nice scholarship and earned $20,000 before he started school. I encourage him to have a social life too, like I should have done, and didn’t.
 

edwin dirnbeck

Hot Rolled
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Location
st,louis mo
Change the water pump on their car {any car}. After they are thru cursing,Ask them to calculate the extra cost to make a lifetime water pump bearing. Edwin Dirnbeck
 

mhajicek

Titanium
Joined
May 11, 2017
Location
Minneapolis, MN, USA
NEVER EVER use a torx screw.Edwin Dirnbeck

Why not? I like torx screws. I used them for fixture bolts that will be repeatedly actuated, since they don't strip out nearly as fast.

Another note: I had a senior engineer seriously ask me "So when you program a part for the machine, do you just load the model and the software writes the program for you, or do you have to work at it a bit?" - referring to 5 axis machining of Ti bone plates with double lead tapered threads at 13 different angles.

And my biggest pet peeves of all:

1) Always model your parts at the midpoint of tolerance; doing otherwise often results in geometric impossibilities, if the part is any more complicated than a straight shaft, and increases time, cost, and chance of error in production and inspection.

2) Never, ever, manually override a dimension on a print, for the same reason. This should be a firing offense. I've seen tens, perhaps hundreds of thousands of dollars and months wasted pursuing the fallout from a single occurrence.
 

edwin dirnbeck

Hot Rolled
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Location
st,louis mo
Why not? I like torx screws. I used them for fixture bolts that will be repeatedly actuated, since they don't strip out nearly as fast.

Another note: I had a senior engineer seriously ask me "So when you program a part for the machine, do you just load the model and the software writes the program for you, or do you have to work at it a bit?" - referring to 5 axis machining of Ti bone plates with double lead tapered threads at 13 different angles.

And my biggest pet peeves of all:

1) Always model your parts at the midpoint of tolerance; doing otherwise often results in geometric impossibilities, if the part is any more complicated than a straight shaft, and increases time, cost, and chance of error in production and inspection.

2) Never, ever, manually override a dimension on a print, for the same reason. This should be a firing offense. I've seen tens, perhaps hundreds of thousands of dollars and months wasted pursuing the fallout from a single occurrence.
Torx are better than phillips screws. They both work ok when you can PUSH on them when installing and removing.Dumb people will put them on eveything and then bury them down in an inaccessible place.I also love it when I buy a boring bar and the insert is held in with a torx and they GIVE you a free l shaped wrench that quickly camms out the first and last time you try to use it. Allways model your parts at the midpoint of tolerance. ABSOLUTELY, this is something that old time designers will never learn,they are too fixed in their ways. Edwin Dirnbeck
 

Hbjj

Cast Iron
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Location
Washington st
+1 on toleranceing it probably the single largest cause of problems/friction/wasted time and money.

Simple elegant designs.

It seems to me that many engineers create overly elaborate and complex designs

IMHO the more complex the design the less engineering talent expressed.

Remember K.I.S.S

students should study designer's like Browning and kalashnikov two geniuses of design the likes of witch will probably never be seen again.
 

mhajicek

Titanium
Joined
May 11, 2017
Location
Minneapolis, MN, USA
Torx are better than phillips screws. They both work ok when you can PUSH on them when installing and removing.Dumb people will put them on eveything and then bury them down in an inaccessible place.I also love it when I buy a boring bar and the insert is held in with a torx and they GIVE you a free l shaped wrench that quickly camms out the first and last time you try to use it. Allways model your parts at the midpoint of tolerance. ABSOLUTELY, this is something that old time designers will never learn,they are too fixed in their ways. Edwin Dirnbeck

I've never once had a torx cam out. There's no taper. EVERY insert screw I've seen is torx, because it works so much better than hex. On small screws the tip of the driver will snap off, or the head of the screw will snap off, before the torx cams out. I wonder what you're doing differently than me.
 

mhajicek

Titanium
Joined
May 11, 2017
Location
Minneapolis, MN, USA
Oh, here's another one. Parts are a lot easier to machine if there's something to hold it by; two flat, parallel, opposing surfaces, or a bit of straight cylinder, etc. Organic surfaces all over gets tricky, and may require tab parting with hand cleanup.
 

Bondo

Hot Rolled
Joined
May 14, 2011
Location
Bridgeton NJ
Every young engineer I have ever met, could not read a damm tape measure.

If you can draw it up in cad to the .001 then why the hell cant you read a tape.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

John Garner

Titanium
Joined
Sep 1, 2004
Location
south SF Bay area, California
The overwhelming majority of failure causes in screw-to-driver interfaces I've had to fix over the last forty-some years have been of "organic" origin. The most common mechanical manifestations of these failures have been, in no particular order, 1) using an undersize driver, 2) using a wrong-type driver, and 3) not putting the bit all the way into the screw's drive recess.

The undersize driver problem is especially common in cross- type and star-type recesses, with an honorable mention to those who use a metric hex driver in an Imperial recess . . . Or vice-versa.

Bringing this back to the designer-to-maker interface, I'd sure like to see designers identify drivers to fit any out-of-the-ordinary screwheads that are used in their designs.
 

edwin dirnbeck

Hot Rolled
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Location
st,louis mo
I've never once had a torx cam out. There's no taper. EVERY insert screw I've seen is torx, because it works so much better than hex. On small screws the tip of the driver will snap off, or the head of the screw will snap off, before the torx cams out. I wonder what you're doing differently than me.

In the auto repair business the proper name is _______ torx.Edwin Dirnbeck
 

edwin dirnbeck

Hot Rolled
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Location
st,louis mo
The overwhelming majority of failure causes in screw-to-driver interfaces I've had to fix over the last forty-some years have been of "organic" origin. The most common mechanical manifestations of these failures have been, in no particular order, 1) using an undersize driver, 2) using a wrong-type driver, and 3) not putting the bit all the way into the screw's drive recess.

The undersize driver problem is especially common in cross- type and star-type recesses, with an honorable mention to those who use a metric hex driver in an Imperial recess . . . Or vice-versa.

Bringing this back to the designer-to-maker interface, I'd sure like to see designers identify drivers to fit any out-of-the-ordinary screwheads that are used in their designs.

When repairing an old part that has _______ torx,you have one shot at it.I blow the screw out ,then I grind the tip of my Bit so that it is a very snug fit and then cross my fingers. Edwin Dirnbeck
 

edwin dirnbeck

Hot Rolled
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Location
st,louis mo
I've never once had a torx cam out.

How Ironic, Torx was invented by a company named CAMCAR,you couldnt make this stuf up.I think that a guy invented the torx and THEN decided to name his company. He should have named it CAMOUT .I dont like them and will never use them if I have a choice .But hey I aint complaining.Edwin Dirnbeck
 








 
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