What do you want young engineers/designers to know?

[CarbideBob]

.
The problem you guys are talking about I am working on, as a mentor for the local FIRST Robotics team. Most of you here should be mentors for one of the 7,000 or so teams in the US. Season just started and we have 8 weeks to design, build, program and test a robot that can cost up to $5,000.

I thought seriously about doing that as I do so love to teach automation, robots, vision systems, senors and all that sort of stuff.
Add that the gal in the office and on machines was in FIRST robotic team for years on the support side,.... then I met some of the other "established mentors".
Oil and water the best way to put it.
Bob

 

[jim rozen]

That reading stuff? I’ve read the entire Thomas Register all 21 volumes, twice. McMaster Carr front to back three times.
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Which Mc-M C catalog - they keep getting heavier and heavier! Also I'm amazes that Thomases still exist these days.

 

[garyhlucas]

I thought seriously about doing that as I do so love to teach automation, robots, vision systems, senors and all that sort of stuff.
Add that the gal in the office and on machines was in FIRST robotic team for years on the support side,.... then I met some of the other "established mentors".
Oil and water the best way to put it.
Bob

Bob,
You are not entirely wrong, it can be tough. I kind of got lucky. One mentor left because of a new job and I was able to mentor the design committee on my own. Another that was more interested in showing the students how good he was at Mygyvering things moved to another school. Our team has an excellent and commited teacher running it, as demonstrated by us having over 60 students participating.

I’ve told everyone I have no interest in the game, only in passing on the real world skills they likely wouldn’t encounter until they finish college.

My grandson was on the team for 3 seasons. He is going to NJIT and works with me at my job summers and breaks doing automation projects. He busted his ass in high school taking extra college courses. So he started NJIT as a Junior! Two years to graduate at 19!! He also works a second job at Target. Got a nice scholarship and earned $20,000 before he started school. I encourage him to have a social life too, like I should have done, and didn’t.

 

[edwin dirnbeck]

Change the water pump on their car {any car}. After they are thru cursing,Ask them to calculate the extra cost to make a lifetime water pump bearing. Edwin Dirnbeck

 

[edwin dirnbeck]

NEVER EVER use a torx screw.Edwin Dirnbeck

 

[mhajicek]

NEVER EVER use a torx screw.Edwin Dirnbeck

Why not? I like torx screws. I used them for fixture bolts that will be repeatedly actuated, since they don't strip out nearly as fast.

Another note: I had a senior engineer seriously ask me "So when you program a part for the machine, do you just load the model and the software writes the program for you, or do you have to work at it a bit?" - referring to 5 axis machining of Ti bone plates with double lead tapered threads at 13 different angles.

And my biggest pet peeves of all:

1) Always model your parts at the midpoint of tolerance; doing otherwise often results in geometric impossibilities, if the part is any more complicated than a straight shaft, and increases time, cost, and chance of error in production and inspection.

2) Never, ever, manually override a dimension on a print, for the same reason. This should be a firing offense. I've seen tens, perhaps hundreds of thousands of dollars and months wasted pursuing the fallout from a single occurrence.

 

[edwin dirnbeck]

Why not? I like torx screws. I used them for fixture bolts that will be repeatedly actuated, since they don't strip out nearly as fast.

Another note: I had a senior engineer seriously ask me "So when you program a part for the machine, do you just load the model and the software writes the program for you, or do you have to work at it a bit?" - referring to 5 axis machining of Ti bone plates with double lead tapered threads at 13 different angles.

And my biggest pet peeves of all:

1) Always model your parts at the midpoint of tolerance; doing otherwise often results in geometric impossibilities, if the part is any more complicated than a straight shaft, and increases time, cost, and chance of error in production and inspection.

2) Never, ever, manually override a dimension on a print, for the same reason. This should be a firing offense. I've seen tens, perhaps hundreds of thousands of dollars and months wasted pursuing the fallout from a single occurrence.

Torx are better than phillips screws. They both work ok when you can PUSH on them when installing and removing.Dumb people will put them on eveything and then bury them down in an inaccessible place.I also love it when I buy a boring bar and the insert is held in with a torx and they GIVE you a free l shaped wrench that quickly camms out the first and last time you try to use it. Allways model your parts at the midpoint of tolerance. ABSOLUTELY, this is something that old time designers will never learn,they are too fixed in their ways. Edwin Dirnbeck

 

[Hbjj]

+1 on toleranceing it probably the single largest cause of problems/friction/wasted time and money.

Simple elegant designs.

It seems to me that many engineers create overly elaborate and complex designs

IMHO the more complex the design the less engineering talent expressed.

Remember K.I.S.S

students should study designer's like Browning and kalashnikov two geniuses of design the likes of witch will probably never be seen again.

 

[mhajicek]

Torx are better than phillips screws. They both work ok when you can PUSH on them when installing and removing.Dumb people will put them on eveything and then bury them down in an inaccessible place.I also love it when I buy a boring bar and the insert is held in with a torx and they GIVE you a free l shaped wrench that quickly camms out the first and last time you try to use it. Allways model your parts at the midpoint of tolerance. ABSOLUTELY, this is something that old time designers will never learn,they are too fixed in their ways. Edwin Dirnbeck

I've never once had a torx cam out. There's no taper. EVERY insert screw I've seen is torx, because it works so much better than hex. On small screws the tip of the driver will snap off, or the head of the screw will snap off, before the torx cams out. I wonder what you're doing differently than me.

 

[mhajicek]

Oh, here's another one. Parts are a lot easier to machine if there's something to hold it by; two flat, parallel, opposing surfaces, or a bit of straight cylinder, etc. Organic surfaces all over gets tricky, and may require tab parting with hand cleanup.

 

[Bondo]

Every young engineer I have ever met, could not read a damm tape measure.

If you can draw it up in cad to the .001 then why the hell cant you read a tape.

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[John Garner]

The overwhelming majority of failure causes in screw-to-driver interfaces I've had to fix over the last forty-some years have been of "organic" origin. The most common mechanical manifestations of these failures have been, in no particular order, 1) using an undersize driver, 2) using a wrong-type driver, and 3) not putting the bit all the way into the screw's drive recess.

The undersize driver problem is especially common in cross- type and star-type recesses, with an honorable mention to those who use a metric hex driver in an Imperial recess . . . Or vice-versa.

Bringing this back to the designer-to-maker interface, I'd sure like to see designers identify drivers to fit any out-of-the-ordinary screwheads that are used in their designs.

 

[edwin dirnbeck]

I've never once had a torx cam out. There's no taper. EVERY insert screw I've seen is torx, because it works so much better than hex. On small screws the tip of the driver will snap off, or the head of the screw will snap off, before the torx cams out. I wonder what you're doing differently than me.

In the auto repair business the proper name is _______ torx.Edwin Dirnbeck

 

[mhajicek]

In the auto repair business the proper name is _______ torx.Edwin Dirnbeck

Are you using a standard torx driver in a torx plus socket? That'll do it.

 

[edwin dirnbeck]

The overwhelming majority of failure causes in screw-to-driver interfaces I've had to fix over the last forty-some years have been of "organic" origin. The most common mechanical manifestations of these failures have been, in no particular order, 1) using an undersize driver, 2) using a wrong-type driver, and 3) not putting the bit all the way into the screw's drive recess.

The undersize driver problem is especially common in cross- type and star-type recesses, with an honorable mention to those who use a metric hex driver in an Imperial recess . . . Or vice-versa.

Bringing this back to the designer-to-maker interface, I'd sure like to see designers identify drivers to fit any out-of-the-ordinary screwheads that are used in their designs.

When repairing an old part that has _______ torx,you have one shot at it.I blow the screw out ,then I grind the tip of my Bit so that it is a very snug fit and then cross my fingers. Edwin Dirnbeck

 

[edwin dirnbeck]

Are you using a standard torx driver in a torx plus socket? That'll do it.

When reaching down into a screw that you can hardly see,who do you ask? Yes I make sure that my bit fits as snugly as possible. Edwin Dirnbeck

 

[edwin dirnbeck]

I've never once had a torx cam out.

How Ironic, Torx was invented by a company named CAMCAR,you couldnt make this stuf up.I think that a guy invented the torx and THEN decided to name his company. He should have named it CAMOUT .I dont like them and will never use them if I have a choice .But hey I aint complaining.Edwin Dirnbeck

 

[mathamattox]

Young engineers need to know how to use geometric tolerancing when appropriate so that manufacturing isn't trying to guess the intent of tolerances.

 

[MilGunsmith]

They should get some real world machining experience, so that they understand that you cant spec a hole in a place that you cant be reached with a drill, machine spindle and chuck need to be taken into consideration. I agree that they all should have a copy of the McMaster catalog. I have new engineers bringing me drawings with odd sized fasteners or pins that would have to be made, because that's what they calculated out instead of trying to find a standard off the shelf item. Singer Sewing machine used to use odd sized fasteners because they made all the parts in house and didn't want the repairman substituting an inferior part. I still have Dad's odd sized taps from when he was a Toolmaker at Singer.
They also need to understand that the machinist or toolmaker may not have a degree, but that doesn't mean that they are stupid.

 

[camscan]

They also need to know that because my point of view is not the same as their point of view makes me wrong,every time.