what kind of brands/pricing range of edm machines for our need

[alko]

Hey
i am looking for information about brands and price range of edm ram and wire for our need without getting trough the hassle with suppliers
as a inhouse toolshop for our coldfoming department it would be beneficial for us to have the ability to edm some dies and parts used in our own production facility.

these machines wont run every day and will only be used for our inhouse needs
so they dont need to be the best or fastest that the market has to offer.
used machines would be more the sufficient enough but since we lack the expertise in edm i guess it would be more beneficial to us to buy new to get support from the seller.

we do need a wire edm to burn some cavities in carbide dies and wire for the rest of the dies/parts

the max part seize we need to burn is around 350mm diameter
material we need to cut is carbide g55 g40 and hardened tool steels

the ram edm would need to have the adility to index the throdes with a c-axis "not simultanious' just positioning would be more then enough

for the wire edm it should be able to have a flat positioned 4th axis 'indexing is more then enough" to burn around the 350mm diameter without needing to reclamp the part so we don't have alignment issues

the narrowest tolerance we need to burn is +-0.005mm


are there any brands to consider beside the big names we should considder and is it possible to give me a rough ballpark price of what each machine should cost ?
i ask this to see if its beneficial or worth to do the parts inhouse instead of sourcing them out to external vendors cause the biggest issue atm is time, since they want to make adjustments to the dies because something isn't working well or to extend the lifetime of the die.

already thx in advance

 

[implmex]

Hi alko:
This is a well-worn subject with lots of past posts by myself and others on many aspects of what's worthwhile to pay attention to.

The shortest version is to buy new if you want to minimize your hassles and get the best, most efficient capability.
It's doubly true if you have little or no EDM experience.
The new machine training is useful, the easy to use controls are useful, and when it won't work you don't have to wonder whether it's you or the machine...you know it's you.

When you choose used, you are accepting more uncertainty.
There are great brands out there that can still be serviced decades after they were new, but all will become orphans after enough time has elapsed.
In this world an orphan is a boat anchor...wires especially depend on many subsystems that all have to work together... as soon as one fails it's over unless you can get it fixed or fix it yourself.

What brand you choose matters less if you stick with three general rules:
1) Don't buy an orphan.
2) Don't buy a worn-out dog.
3) Don't buy a piece of shit

Orphans are machines you cannot service, either because they never had a robust presence here or because the maker has long since stopped supporting them and there's no robust used parts and aftermarket parts supply chain.

Worn out dogs are ones where either the mechanical bits or the electronic bits are failing...on an old sinker it is most commonly the hydraulic servo valve, and on a wire it is most commonly the pumps and the wire transport subsystem.

Pieces of shit are brands that were never very good even when they were new...many of the earlier Taiwanese and Chinese brands fall into that category, although many of those once condemned as shitboxes have improved greatly over the years.
I have a vintage 2011 CHMER wire EDM and it has been a great and bulletproof machine for me, but there was a time when they were pretty hopeless.

All this is commonsense... so let me offer the following:

If I had money to burn there'd be a pair of new Makino machines on my floor.

If I was looking for the best value for my bucks, there'd be a pair of new Sodicks on my floor.

There would never be a pair of Swiss machines on my floor (Charmilles or Agie)...they're just too expensive to service, or at least they were when I was in the "New Machine" game.

There would never be a pair of Mitsubishis on my floor...I was really put off by their predatory service policy once upon a time and, I have a personal prejudice against them.
Others love them and would buy nothing else.

There's lots posted here on PM...I encourage you to start your search with my username and dive in from there.
Others like Jay Crumb, Roy Solomon, Bud Guitrau, Brian Pfluger and many more have dropped pearls in here over the years...spend some quality time looking them up and start reading.

Cheers

Marcus
www.implant-mechanix.com
www.vancouverwireedm.com

 

[Waakzaamheid]

Hi alko:
This is a well-worn subject with lots of past posts by myself and others on many aspects of what's worthwhile to pay attention to.

The shortest version is to buy new if you want to minimize your hassles and get the best, most efficient capability.
It's doubly true if you have little or no EDM experience.
The new machine training is useful, the easy to use controls are useful, and when it won't work you don't have to wonder whether it's you or the machine...you know it's you.

When you choose used, you are accepting more uncertainty.
There are great brands out there that can still be serviced decades after they were new, but all will become orphans after enough time has elapsed.
In this world an orphan is a boat anchor...wires especially depend on many subsystems that all have to work together... as soon as one fails it's over unless you can get it fixed or fix it yourself.

What brand you choose matters less if you stick with three general rules:
1) Don't buy an orphan.
2) Don't buy a worn-out dog.
3) Don't buy a piece of shit

Orphans are machines you cannot service, either because they never had a robust presence here or because the maker has long since stopped supporting them and there's no robust used parts and aftermarket parts supply chain.

Worn out dogs are ones where either the mechanical bits or the electronic bits are failing...on an old sinker it is most commonly the hydraulic servo valve, and on a wire it is most commonly the pumps and the wire transport subsystem.

Pieces of shit are brands that were never very good even when they were new...many of the earlier Taiwanese and Chinese brands fall into that category, although many of those once condemned as shitboxes have improved greatly over the years.
I have a vintage 2011 CHMER wire EDM and it has been a great and bulletproof machine for me, but there was a time when they were pretty hopeless.

All this is commonsense... so let me offer the following:

If I had money to burn there'd be a pair of new Makino machines on my floor.

If I was looking for the best value for my bucks, there'd be a pair of new Sodicks on my floor.

There would never be a pair of Swiss machines on my floor (Charmilles or Agie)...they're just too expensive to service, or at least they were when I was in the "New Machine" game.

There would never be a pair of Mitsubishis on my floor...I was really put off by their predatory service policy once upon a time and, I have a personal prejudice against them.
Others love them and would buy nothing else.

There's lots posted here on PM...I encourage you to start your search with my username and dive in from there.
Others like Jay Crumb, Roy Solomon, Bud Guitrau, Brian Pfluger and many more have dropped pearls in here over the years...spend some quality time looking them up and start reading.

Cheers

Marcus
www.implant-mechanix.com
www.vancouverwireedm.com

This is all good info, just want to say that I'm glad someone shares my dislike to Mits wires.

 

[KilrB]

If they aren't going to see daily use, you might want to check EDM Network's refurbished stock.
They also sell new Chmer.
They are knowledgeable and have been helpful to me in the past.