What to look for in first CNC mill

[lancepr]

First I would like to thank this forum, I have not posted much, but learned a ton from reading and searching.
About 10 years ago I purchased a bridgeport, then a lathe, then a CNC plasma, then a press brake.
I make all sorts of stuff for my sawmill.
I would like to get a small CNC mill to make better parts.
What should I be looking for on the interface side(HMI, operator station, not sure the technical name) of things? Is it a pretty standard G-code type language similar to my CNC plasma?
I am for sure buying a used machine, and will not be making very big parts, it would just be nice to be able to make Mutiple parts faster than hand milling them.
I have been going through you tube tutorials on Fusion 360 to get a hang of that.
How old of machine could I get and still work with fusion 360? Should I be looking for a usb interface or network, how do you move the jobs over to the CNC machine.

 

[rklopp]

Age is not much of an issue with a machine talking to Fusion 360. My 1986 Deckel FP2NC works fine with Fusion via USB-to-RS232 serial interface. However, the Deckel's processor is limited, so it is easy for Fusion code to choke it. The machine does much better with finger-CAM, which I'd recommend learning regardless. I don't view sawmill parts as small, so I'd go with at least 30x16 travels. You will get sick of tool changing and messes if you go with an open machine that has no automatic tool changer. But those machines are way cheaper, fine to learn on, and can take you a long way until you decide on something better.

 

[guythatbrews]

If I was in your shoes, which sounds like making parts for yourself with pretty low quantities, I might think of expanding my manual equipment capability. That is unless you want to teach yourself CNC machining to transition into machine work for a living.

Lots of very cool, capable manual machines out there pretty cheap. You'll spend more time learning about being a machinist instead of CAD. And manual machines are a lot easier to fix when they go south.

If you want CNC to do surfacing and profiling that's another matter. I guess you could argue much of this is possible on a manual machine, but it becomes impractical and super slow quickly.

Well my $.02 and good luck!

 

[BOB-OO]

What's you budget? What material will you be cutting? What are the tolerances you need to hold? How big of a machining area do you need? -Those answers should get you pointed towards something.

I started with early 1990 Bridgeport VMC-16, they are too old today. The oldest should be something you can still buy NEW parts for from the OEM. I would try to stay no more then 15 years old unless its a Fanuc control & servo(Kitamura, Makino, Doosan, others) or Mazak-I've heard Okuma is good for older machine support too but don't know. No old Siemens or Heidenhain controls. Old replacement parts get more expensive then modern stuff but at least you can get them w Fanuc & Mazak/Mitsubishi.

If your looking to do full 3axis contour parts, then a modern interface - USB or Ethernet would be preferred. RS-232 will work but will cost you time and the control/transfer speed may choke on complex surfaces.

It's a process moving to CNC but you will be very happy the day you hit cycle start and walk away to do something else.

Good Luck, shouldn't be very hard to find something decent. Since you don't have experience - when you think you found it, paying someone who knows that machine manufacturer to do an inspection and a few simple movement tests w an indicator or cut a test part even better, could save you tens of thousands...

 

[EmGo]

There's a Leadwell in another thread, in Texas, that looks pretty clean for a dollar. You're going to have shipping whatever you get, so that's not a huge disadvantage. Looks reasonable to me for a starter.

I'll even hunt it down for you ...

Leadwell VMC For Sale - SOLD

SOLD - I have a Leadwell MCV-550D 1986 Model, S/N 865290 Everything works except one of the air valves on the tool changer needs replaced again. (Edit: it works now. An air cylinder was sticking) If nobody wants it in the next few weeks I will start parting it out and will make pickup loads to...

practicalmachinist.com

(Links don't work anymore)

 

[memphisjed]

the dollar cnc looks like a deal at twice the price. Where in MS are you?

 

[EmGo]

the dollar cnc looks like a deal at twice the price.

Heck, I'd go as high as $5

It's hard not to get a little burned out on these threads. I can't count how many times there's been a twenty-responses long thread, "which mill should I buy ?" when a really good choice comes up on this very site cheap, but money changing hands ? Crickets.

 

[lancepr]

I searched and did not find much talk about the controls, that is what I was more interested in, for what I will making, I do not think the actual machine makes much difference
Thanks for the info everyone

 

[EmGo]

I searched and did not find much talk about the controls, that is what I was more interested in, for what I will making, I do not think the actual machine makes much difference

Whoa. Can you get this any more backwards ?

 

[lancepr]

I'm not making rocket ship parts, I think having a user friendly interface for my fist machine is very important. Getting bogged down in specs, that will matter very little to me is not the discussion I was looking for.

 

[mhajicek]

IME, newer machines tend to be much more user friendly. A recent Haas with probing is about as user friendly as it gets, and they can easily hold a tenth.

 

[LOTT]

I'm not making rocket ship parts, I think having a user friendly interface for my fist machine is very important. Getting bogged down in specs, that will matter very little to me is not the discussion I was looking for.

Are you sure this CNC machining thing is for you? There's a lot of pesky specs to worry about....

What's your budget?

 

[latheman78]

There's a Leadwell in another thread, in Texas, that looks pretty clean for a dollar. You're going to have shipping whatever you get, so that's not a huge disadvantage. Looks reasonable to me for a starter.

I'll even hunt it down for you ...

Leadwell VMC For Sale - SOLD

SOLD - I have a Leadwell MCV-550D 1986 Model, S/N 865290 Everything works except one of the air valves on the tool changer needs replaced again. (Edit: it works now. An air cylinder was sticking) If nobody wants it in the next few weeks I will start parting it out and will make pickup loads to...

practicalmachinist.com

(Links don't work anymore)

The longer that thing sits the more I look at it, I finally did some quick math on the cost to haul it back to my neck of the California woods and will finally stop peeking at it. Too big for my trailer and I figure $2k for fuel unless I borrow a friend's diesel, weight is murder on a gas engine. I figure $4k total expenses, but still you could part it out and scrap the rest and get that back if you can't fix the tool changer. I cannot believe no one has snagged that thing.

 

[MwTech Inc]

I would like to get a small CNC mill to make better parts.

I am for sure buying a used machine, and will not be making very big parts, it would just be nice to be able to make Mutiple parts faster than hand milling them.

CNC can make bad parts just as easy as a manual....LOL

CNC can make bad parts just as easy as a manual....LOL
As a 30 year manual machinist who got his first VMC 6 months ago, depends on how many "multiple " parts you will be making. I assume you have a readout on your mill?
In my case I needed a VMC to produce 3000 parts, I wasn't going to hand crank handles....lol
IMO get one with Fanuc and learn G code.....

 

[latheman78]

CNC can make bad parts just as easy as a manual....LOL
As a 30 year manual machinist who got his first VMC 6 months ago, depends on how many "multiple " parts you will be making. I assume you have a readout on your mill?
In my case I needed a VMC to produce 3000 parts, I wasn't going to hand crank handles....lol
IMO get one with Fanuc and learn G code.....

Fanuc is the way to go as it is the most popular, whether needing repair parts, a service tech or help programming.

 

[memphisjed]

Almost all modern, even semi modern, machines take a gcode file that your cam (fusion et al) spits out. This takes having a model your cad spit out.
Conversational or wizards some things are included with some controllers, Mazak, cncmasters, and even Mach (do not recommend) have this function. Kipware is a software that has conversational to gcode function; cnc cookbook has one too. Here you do not need a model, just say holes thus deep at this spacing. You can fingercam gcode (write out the lines in notepad) if you want also.

It is not smiled on here, but desk proto cam is very easy for simple parts or the random large stl file part. It doesn’t have the fancy paths a real cam does- it will get you your parts.

Hmi matters, color screens are nice, mpg wheel is mandatory for onsee twosee work. A probe is something I didn’t think I would use much but for rework/maintaince it has become a crutch I love.
Control that can rotate or transform part without having to edit your gcode is also something I wouldn’t be without now- I would have never guessed how handy this function is, or how rare it is.

Any machine you get is going to be learning curve. Nc opens options for shapes that would be above paygrade otherwise.

 

[EmGo]

Almost all modern, even semi modern, machines take a gcode file that your cam (fusion et al) spits out.

Jed, anything back to around 1965 will read g-code. G-code came before computers. G-code works in most NC's. The only stuff that doesn't is more modern controls that are "conversational" such as some Hurcos or Mazaks.

 

[RC Mech]

Any Haas, Fanuc, Fadal or Siemens made in the last 20 years will import a program to the control in five button presses or less. The USB, PCMCIA, Ethernet or RS232 part is immaterial, you'll be using one or the others.

All the controls have the same work flow via offsets, tool heights/probing etc. There’s no way around this- no machine from DMG to Torshit will circumvent at least a cursory knowledge of how a control operates. The iron on the other hand will absolutely dictate your production capabilities.

 

[NTM]

I really like the old OM-C Fanuc control machines from the 90's. They're dirt cheap at auctions now. If you can find yourself an old Mori with a Fanuc on it they're pretty bullet proof and reliable. It's a good way for someone to get into CNC, IMO.

I'm envious of the excellent selection of fantastic machines for cheap that were not available 20 years ago when I was in your shoes.

I regret buying a new, somewhat affordable, off-brand machine when I got started. Money wasted that could have bought a whole shop full of good older Japanese machines at auction. I took a bath on it when I sold it for something more capable. Check out Bid spotter etc. There are some steals out there if you're patient which reduces the risk when dipping your toes into something unfamiliar.