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What would it mean to manufacturing if Finland and Sweden joined NATO?

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triumph406

Titanium
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Location
ca
Yabut.. he's running at an average of $900 million US every DAY.. over 70 BILLION USD so far.. out of RUSSIA's pocket? Not-even China is helping with weapons OR money.

Ukraine is funded by the whole free world by contrast..?

Annnnnd "intel" sez Putin "budgeted" for fifty thousand DEAD Russians.

Ukraine has only delivered just over HALF that figure, will need another 45 days to hit fifty thou once the June counter offensive hits high-gear.

See the top banner:

The red figure to the right of each category is already included. It is the ADDITION, previous 24 hours.

.. plus 'already..' - probably.. ('coz that's how the statistics run...) for each combatant confirmed killed, 3 more are out of the fight:

- 25 thou Rus wounded too badly to EVER see combat again -> 50 thou target.

- 25 thou who MAY do.. long recovery wounds -> 50 thou target

- 25 thou with but minor wounds who assuredly WILL do -> 50 thou target.. if they do not mutiny or scarper.

Leave it run its course. 200 thousand fewer Orcs is not a bad thing.

Eight years into a war, Ukraine is "owed" revenge, and they will HAVE it.

Putin's ammo and armaments are meant to be used-up ... troops as well.. [1] ..so Russia is no longer a threat to ANYBODY.

Hopefully.. not even themselves.. but why would anyone care, 'karma' being a bitch and all...?


[1] Putin's Orc's lost 400 dead 7 May. Many "still in the wrapper" ... inside of AFV's rendered into flaming scrap. The average .. so far .. HAD been only about 350 per day.

And Ukraine is only getting started. Ukraine's government estimates they already have 5.2 million souls who qualify as 'veterans'. And climbing, what with 44+ million folks to draw from.




Not directly, I assume that the Chinese are buying more energy (gas/crude) from Russia, probably at deep discounts, now the Russkies are getting desperate. So Vlad still getting his skim, and the Chinese are getting cheap energy.

In addition, why send weapons, especially weapons systems to the conflict to see them fail? I would think China is watching and learning. Improving battlefield comms so they don't have to rely on cell phones to communicate. Improve tank defenses against drones etc etc

--------------------

One not surprising problem the Russkies have had is the poor maintenece of their equipment. Old tires on trucks that disentigrate because their way past their usefull life, lack of spares for transport and fighting vehicles. etc. All due to corruption.
Corruption not being unknown in China, their probably reviewing just how their combat readiness is. When they invade Taiwan, they'll have learnt from Russias experience in the Ukraine.
 

standardparts

Diamond
Joined
Mar 26, 2019
The west will pour huge investments into Ukraine once the war is over. They have large reserves of natural gas and coal in the east, Dombas to be exact :). If they win Ukraine will be OK. If China stays out of the conflict, they may be able to scoop up some of the Russian resources in the east, but it will take decades, by then China's population is going to be in deep decline. It is a very complicated imbalance of global power between the EU, the US, and China. China cannot risk helping Russia, Russia cannot help China. China needs to wait out how the war turns out and recalculate. China is much more integrated into the US and the EU economic structure than into the Russian one. Remember what McCain said about Russia, It is a gas station with an army that is attached to a county.

Based on past promises and commitment coming from D.C. wonder if promises will be kept.

--20% poverty rate.
--median age of 36, only slightly less of China at 38. (wonder what Peter Zeihan would say)
--thousands of homeless and thousands of abandoned building in one major city.
--underwater with financial debt even without a war.
--schools that are viewed as terrible.

There's more bad news so really doubt those in D.C. can fix things--no matter what they promise.
 

triumph406

Titanium
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Location
ca
[1] Putin's Orc's lost 400 dead 7 May. Many "still in the wrapper" ... inside of AFV's rendered into flaming scrap. The average .. so far .. HAD been only about 350 per day.



I was talking to a friend about my favorite Salmon recipe (truth be told it's the only way I cook Salmon and don't f'k it up):

Salmon foil wrapped, with some white wine, butter, and asparagus spears, wrapped nice and tighty, then into the oven.

-------------------------

As heard on a Kyiv street corner
"so how do you like your Russian?"
"Just like T406's salmon, wrapped up tight and cooked to perfection"

-------------------------

There was a youtube video that showed the wrekeage of a Russian helicopter that had been shot down. there were bodies of crewmembers in grotesque states of dismemberment. One scene showed just a ribcage, and nothing else. I don't watch these videos anymore.
 

standardparts

Diamond
Joined
Mar 26, 2019
[/COLOR]

Not directly, I assume that the Chinese are buying more energy (gas/crude) from Russia, probably at deep discounts, now the Russkies are getting desperate. So Vlad still getting his skim, and the Chinese are getting cheap energy.

In addition, why send weapons, especially weapons systems to the conflict to see them fail? I would think China is watching and learning. Improving battlefield comms so they don't have to rely on cell phones to communicate. Improve tank defenses against drones etc etc

--------------------

One not surprising problem the Russkies have had is the poor maintenece of their equipment. Old tires on trucks that disentigrate because their way past their usefull life, lack of spares for transport and fighting vehicles. etc. All due to corruption.
Corruption not being unknown in China, their probably reviewing just how their combat readiness is. When they invade Taiwan, they'll have learnt from Russias experience in the Ukraine.

I have become skeptical of much that is on the internet but no doubt since it's been 70 days since Russia invaded Ukraine there certainly are many issues why the Russo/Ukraine war has gone on so long.

So..that being said it might be important to consider how it may play out if a U.S. ship was hit by attacks. Recently there was a very good commentary based on the U.S. Navy investigation of the fire that destroyed the USS Bonhomme Richard while at a dock, in a U.S. harbor. Cost $1.2 Billion.

Two long vids that detail a complete cluster-fuck by the Navy. Hopefully we can expect "a lesson learned"?.

I think before we act a cheerleaders for the United States to deploy and kick Russian ass we might want to ask the question...are we ready?

Keep in mind a U.S. Navy ship was abandoned at the dock, in a U.S. harbor and burned for days.

Bonhomme Richard Fire Investigation: Part 1 - The Timeline | What's Going on With Shipping? - YouTube

Bonhomme Richard Fire Investigation: Part 2 - Analysis, Commentary & FIREBOATS! - YouTube
 

jim rozen

Diamond
Joined
Feb 26, 2004
Location
peekskill, NY
Y...
I always considered Charles Lindbergh one of America's greatest heroes. His final rank in the U.S. Air Force was Brigadier General. He flew a reported 50 missions in the Pacific, as a civilian, during WW2. On July 28th, 1944 he is credited with shooting down a Japanese aircraft while flying a P38.
....

A complicated man. He was never credited with the kill BTW as he was officially a civilian contractor. His real war contribution was very different and much more vital to the war in the pacific. He was indeed a well-known founder of the american first party and was for a time a significant nazi sympathizer. This accounted for FDR's noted attempts to freeze him out of any war-related efforts, once lindbergh's opinion on this did a 180. The stories are amazing.
 

triumph406

Titanium
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Location
ca
I have become skeptical of much that is on the internet but no doubt since it's been 70 days since Russia invaded Ukraine there certainly are many issues why the Russo/Ukraine war has gone on so long.

So..that being said it might be important to consider how it may play out if a U.S. ship was hit by attacks. Recently there was a very good commentary based on the U.S. Navy investigation of the fire that destroyed the USS Bonhomme Richard while at a dock, in a U.S. harbor. Cost $1.2 Billion.

Two long vids that detail a complete cluster-fuck by the Navy. Hopefully we can expect "a lesson learned"?.

I think before we act a cheerleaders for the United States to deploy and kick Russian ass we might want to ask the question...are we ready?

Keep in mind a U.S. Navy ship was abandoned at the dock, in a U.S. harbor and burned for days.

Bonhomme Richard Fire Investigation: Part 1 - The Timeline | What's Going on With Shipping? - YouTube

Bonhomme Richard Fire Investigation: Part 2 - Analysis, Commentary & FIREBOATS! - YouTube

Bonhomme was a clusterfuck. I'm sure leasons were learned from that. the russians are learning their leasons as they go, in battle.

---------------------------------------

Interesting article

USS George Washington: Sailors say aircraft carrier that had multiple suicides occur among crew was uninhabitable - CNNPolitics

You'd think we would be better than this
 

Thunderjet

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jun 24, 2019
In the years before the United States entered World War II, Lindbergh's non-interventionist stance and statements about Jews and race led some to suspect he was a Nazi sympathizer, although Lindbergh never publicly stated support for Nazi Germany and on multiple occasions condemned them in both his public speeches and in his personal diary. However, early on in the war he opposed not only the intervention of the United States but also the provision of aid to the United Kingdom. He supported the antiwar America First Committee and resigned his commission in the U.S. Army Air Forces in April 1941 after President Franklin Roosevelt publicly rebuked him for his views. In September 1941, Lindbergh gave a significant address, titled "Speech on Neutrality", outlining his views and arguments against greater American involvement in the war.

The above was quoted from Wikipedia.

Doesn't sound like a "significant Nazi sympathizer" to me.

If he was, then Henry Ford was just as bad.
 

Bill D

Diamond
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Location
Modesto, CA USA
Not no more, it ain't.

He just dropped it 0.1 years .... minimum... so he could save the cost of a funeral..... by 'sooting" them in pop-top armoured vehicles or other "mobile-crematoriums" ... with ignition provided at NATO/OTAN expense and "labour of love" to deliver it by valiant Ukraine.

Too busy stealing with both hands to come up with any better plan, Mad Vlad be...

:(

After the Moskova was sunk russia is still claiming all the sailors were saved. Any missing are AWOL and no cash award to surviving family members. It is not a war anyway so no combat death payments are authorized. By not retriving their dead or wounded russia saves money on survivor benefits.
Bill D
 

crickets

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jul 3, 2021
With these guys they can not often guarantee their regular ammunition is not faulty. Due to it being corruption or incompetence this has been noted over time regardless of Communist or Neo Communism. The state of our Nuclear arsenal requires a good bit of maintenance now as it has been put off and we have a very robust economy even so considering.

It costs them a lot less because most links in the nuke chain are state owned, while with ours we have to feed the starving CEOs. I am sure they're still prone to typical Russian things like we've seen in their space program, but with the nukes they got sufficient numbers that even if half of them don't launch, every NATO country will still regret it. Now the other thing worth noting is some of those treaties that have been abandoned, and the effect on the types of nukes they're developing.
 

standardparts

Diamond
Joined
Mar 26, 2019


The above was quoted from Wikipedia.

Doesn't sound like a "significant Nazi sympathizer" to me.

If he was, then Henry Ford was just as bad.

Well I guess considering how racist FDR was Lindbergh was lucky he was not of Japanese ethnicity otherwise FDR would have had throwed his ass in an interment camp, found his property given away, and also be termed a "nazi". Hell...if it was today they would have demanded Lindbergh return the $25K Orteig prize and invalidated the Atlantic non-stop flight record.

FDR, British intel, Clouds of war, 1940 election provide a whole shit load of nuance(?) regarding the time before the U.S. entered the war.

Lindbergh is a great American hero. His wife Anne Morrow Lindbergh writings are impressive.
 

dcsipo

Titanium
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Location
Baldwin, MD/USA
Technically we have instigated that conflict. As a matter of commitment some would say we should finish it off. I would rather we admitted we were wrong, and backed off.

We did not instigate it. Did we do anything to tamp it down? We missed the window to do so in 1991, then a Stalinist dictator happened.
 

dcsipo

Titanium
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Location
Baldwin, MD/USA
Based on past promises and commitment coming from D.C. wonder if promises will be kept.

--20% poverty rate.
--median age of 36, only slightly less of China at 38. (wonder what Peter Zeihan would say)
--thousands of homeless and thousands of abandoned building in one major city.
--underwater with financial debt even without a war.
--schools that are viewed as terrible.

There's more bad news so really doubt those in D.C. can fix things--no matter what they promise.

Well, they are not doing much better than Russia on the Demographics front. But they could have a professional army well equipped by the west to hold back the Russian threat. They have resources and they can become a prosperous country if left alone, They could also supplement the population by opening up to immigration... which complicates things over time, but agriculture needs a lot of hard labor, and central Asia still has a largely untapped workforce. Not sure how the Ukrainians would like a mosque or two in Kyiv. Ukraine has the most fertile land in eastern Europe, has navigable rivers, and access to the sea. Prime for agricultural exports.
 

standardparts

Diamond
Joined
Mar 26, 2019
We did not instigate it. Did we do anything to tamp it down? We missed the window to do so in 1991, then a Stalinist dictator happened.


March 17, 2014

"Today, in the White House Press Briefing Room, President Obama announced new measures intended to send a strong message to the Russian government that there are consequences for their actions that violate the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine, including their actions supporting the illegal referendum for Crimean separation."

Seems like back in 2014 the U.S. and the EU kinda-sorta thought they had things fixed in Ukraine. Interesting 2014 summary from the Obama White House. Keep in mind Joe Biden was there and involved as Vice President so he should be up to speed on how to deal with Putin.

Responding to the Situation in Ukraine | whitehouse.gov
 

standardparts

Diamond
Joined
Mar 26, 2019
Well, they are not doing much better than Russia on the Demographics front. But they could have a professional army well equipped by the west to hold back the Russian threat. They have resources and they can become a prosperous country if left alone, They could also supplement the population by opening up to immigration... which complicates things over time, but agriculture needs a lot of hard labor, and central Asia still has a largely untapped workforce. Not sure how the Ukrainians would like a mosque or two in Kyiv. Ukraine has the most fertile land in eastern Europe, has navigable rivers, and access to the sea. Prime for agricultural exports.

Kind of embarrassed to admit this but those stats are for Baltimore, Maryland but yeah, as you point out, likely no better than Russia or Ukraine. Sorry for the cheap shot but my intent is to point out maybe the next $33 Billion would be better spent on fixing American cities like politicians have been promising since LBJ back in 1968.
 

crickets

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jul 3, 2021
We did not instigate it. Did we do anything to tamp it down? We missed the window to do so in 1991, then a Stalinist dictator happened.

The State Department won't say that we overthrew Yanukovych openly, but there is plenty of information available to demonstrate we have been involved quite a bit. We also emboldened certain behaviors after the 2014 revolution. We can also correlate it to the 2008 Georgia events. I mean the only way we didn't do anything is if one lives under the delusional belief we can never be on the wrong side of things.

Here is an entertaining podcast on the topic :
Thoughts on Ukraine • The Martyrmade Podcast - Podcast Addict

I believe the guy is a conservative commentator, so those with an allergy to conservatives better not click. I am not a conservative, but I found it interesting anyway.
 

CITIZEN F16

Titanium
Joined
May 2, 2021
I was talking to a friend about my favorite Salmon recipe (truth be told it's the only way I cook Salmon and don't f'k it up):

Salmon foil wrapped, with some white wine, butter, and asparagus spears, wrapped nice and tighty, then into the oven.

-------------------------

As heard on a Kyiv street corner
"so how do you like your Russian?"
"Just like T406's salmon, wrapped up tight and cooked to perfection"

-------------------------

There was a youtube video that showed the wrekeage of a Russian helicopter that had been shot down. there were bodies of crewmembers in grotesque states of dismemberment. One scene showed just a ribcage, and nothing else. I don't watch these videos anymore.

No such thing as seafood without lemon or lime for me. As for those pictures I can only stand gore if I know it is fake or an operation to save a life. At least they probably did not feel a thing.
 

jim rozen

Diamond
Joined
Feb 26, 2004
Location
peekskill, NY
...
Lindbergh is a great American hero. His wife Anne Morrow Lindbergh writings are impressive.

No argument. Historical figures like that are always more complicated than a simple hero designation. I'm interested that nobody cares about the real contribution he made during ww2.

I think he had another wife in germany as well.
 

gustafson

Diamond
Joined
Sep 4, 2002
Location
People's Republic
In the years before the United States entered World War II, Lindbergh's non-interventionist stance and statements about Jews and race led some to suspect he was a Nazi sympathizer, although Lindbergh never publicly stated support for Nazi Germany and on multiple occasions condemned them in both his public speeches and in his personal diary. However, early on in the war he opposed not only the intervention of the United States but also the provision of aid to the United Kingdom. He supported the antiwar America First Committee and resigned his commission in the U.S. Army Air Forces in April 1941 after President Franklin Roosevelt publicly rebuked him for his views. In September 1941, Lindbergh gave a significant address, titled "Speech on Neutrality", outlining his views and arguments against greater American involvement in the war.

The above was quoted from Wikipedia.

Doesn't sound like a "significant Nazi sympathizer" to me.

If he was, then Henry Ford was just as bad.

On September 11, 1941, at an America First speech in Des Moines, Iowa, Lindbergh identified the “the British, the Jewish, and the Roosevelt administration” as “war agitators” who had used “misinformation” and “propaganda” to mislead and frighten the American public. The response was immediate. Public support for Lindbergh evaporated, and the Des Moines speech was denounced as anti-Semitic and un-American.



He returned to Germany in October 1938, and Hermann Göring decorated him with the Service Cross of the German Eagle


indbergh praised the Luftwaffe’s fighter and bomber designs, and he asserted that “Europe, and the entire world, is fortunate that a Nazi Germany lies, at present, between Communistic Russia and a demoralized France.”






He was a piece of human garbage, and yes a Nazi sympathizer.

Ford was never a saint, with questionable morals

why do you think the rich an famous are also the 'good'?
 
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