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Which lathe to buy? New Doosan vs used Haas??

mmurray70

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jan 11, 2003
Hey guys I need a new lathe. Running a 40 year old Mazak QT10 now, I need a newer machine, and want to go with 10 inch chuck this time too. Been shopping around for nearly 2 years and Im leaning towards getting a new Doosan Lynx 2600 2-axis, 10 inch chuck with 3" bar capacity. Theres not many used machines in my area at all, but a Haas SL-30 just popped up for sale. I think its a 2006. Im really not a big fan of haas machines, especially their lathes. But this machine on paper technically does everything I need and its less then 1/4 the price of a new Doosan.

Should I consider this machine? Certainly would be nice to just buy it in cash with no payment. But I worry about all sorts of things with the Haas. I think the machine is a terrible design, not a true slant bed. The tailstock mounts really weird to side of casting. Its shockingly close to the design of my 40 year old mazak lol. Most likely wont be nearly as accurate as the new doosan. What about the control? Will Haas discontinue parts of it or will it be supported? What do you guys think? Should I close my eyes and pretend I didnt notice this Haas machine or should I grab it and keep the extra 100k for something else?
 

Garwood

Diamond
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Location
Oregon
What kind of process did you use to narrow down your options to just those two?

I mean, new Doosan is great, but the ONLY used machine you can entertain is a Haas?
 

M.B. Naegle

Titanium
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Location
Conroe, TX USA
We've been happy with our Doosan VMC supported via Ellison, enough that our next lathe is going to be a new Doosan Lynx.

IMO, used machinery is great, but it's always a gamble. Be prepared for everything to go wrong and plan on having to do everything yourself, then you won't be disappointed and you might even be happier with the results because YOU know YOUR machine and you'll be that much better off in the future. It might not be that bad, but again it's a gamble. IMO, if there's any risk of the OEM not supporting the control, I wouldn't want to touch it because I'm not an IC guru. On the other hand, I'll happily sink countless hours totally rebuilding a manual lathe because I know I can do it... stubbornly, out of spite for the world.
 

Garwood

Diamond
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Location
Oregon
IMO, if there's any risk of the OEM not supporting the control, I wouldn't want to touch it because I'm not an IC guru.
That could put a damper on a 2006 Haas.

I guess I just don't follow the logic of either buying a new machine that must be rigged and shipped around the world or the only other machine he can possibly buy is a pile of shit Haas because it's local.

Folks buy non-new non-POS machines and ship them across the country regularly. It's totally normal. Not sure why the OP can't do that?

I shipped a 40 year old CNC lathe to Texas not long ago.
 

Job Shopper TN

Cast Iron
Joined
May 17, 2015
Location
Southeast TN
I think you’d be pretty disappointed going from a Mazak to a Haas. Despite the 25 year age gap between them I think it would feel like a major downgrade, at least in terms of the physical machine. Controller and user friendliness, sure, Haas has a lot of machines beat. But.

Plus they do NOT support pre-2008ish machine controls. If/when it craps out, if you can get it done at all right now you’re looking at $15k to swap it for a newer controller. We had that happen to our 2000 SL30. Just bam, out of the blue, cough up 15k or you got a great paperweight. (which, this particular SL30 is dang near a paperweight anyway lol)

I’d perhaps look at some other used options like perhaps newer Mazaks, Doosan or Okuma, if the payments on a brand new one are a deterrent (can’t blame ya there).
 

ducesrwld

Aluminum
Joined
Mar 27, 2008
Location
S.E. WI
what remote area you in that you don't have much for used options?

i'd get a lot of details on that sl30 and do a thorough lookover of the machine under power with some indicators it doesn't take much to whack haas lathes out of kilter...
 

Rob L

Aluminum
Joined
Nov 5, 2019
Location
Staffordshire, UK
Controller and user friendliness, sure, Haas has a lot of machines beat. But.
I think the solution is to get a used machine with a control many people complain about.

A control with excellent long term parts support.

One all the new Fusion 360 & Pathpilot boys would rather not have even if it was the last machine on earth.

One that typically has a lower value on the used market.

One with a Fanuc control!


I joke but in all seriousness for a straight 2 axis lathe imho Fanuc is king. I have 2x 2 axis lathes with Fanuc controls and 1x Haas 2 axis lathe. Yes the Haas has a pretty screen and more memory but it really doesn't do anything better than the Fanuc controls once it's set up for a part and it's debatable if the set up is any easier really, it's just a little different, having half of the keys insanely low on my Haas lathe sucks for sure. Also with the Fanuc controls I really don't worry about not being able to repair it if I need to, with the Haas I do worry about parts availability because I know a number of the parts in it are discontinued and that control is 7 and 8 years newer than my Fanuc controls.
 

DouglasJRizzo

Titanium
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
Location
Ramsey, NJ.
I'm a little biased, as I used to work for them, but it's Doosan (DN Solutions now) all the way.
Every damn day.
Much more robust. Nice, fine grain, heavy castings.
All Fanuc drives, control, and motors.
Top quality switchgear and electrics.
Built for the long haul.
Good warranty also.

Last place I worked at, before I went on my own had a Haas ST-30. It was "ok" but just barely. It had five spindles replaced in four years before Haas got it right.
Really was not impressed with it.

The Doosan will cut stainless, tough stuff and exotics all day.
Look at the size of the roller ways compared to the Haas, they're twice as large on the Doosan. Motors, too.
 

mmurray70

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jan 11, 2003
That could put a damper on a 2006 Haas.

I guess I just don't follow the logic of either buying a new machine that must be rigged and shipped around the world or the only other machine he can possibly buy is a pile of shit Haas because it's local.

Folks buy non-new non-POS machines and ship them across the country regularly. It's totally normal. Not sure why the OP can't do that?

I shipped a 40 year old CNC lathe to Texas not long ago.

Im in Newfoundland, Canada. Shipping is not impossible, but it is costly to get machines here. And I would like to inspect a machine before buying. There's another big expense, time and money to go inspect a used machine in a different province. So I was mostly decided to bite the bullet and go with a new Doosan. Spend little more and avoid all the headaches.

But a few days ago the owner of another shop txted me saying they were selling their SL30 for great price so thats why im here asking you guys. I know its a piece of shit compared to a new doosan, but it sure is a whole lot cheaper. I have to at least consider it. Weigh out the pros and cons. Sometimes the economics of used machines make more sense.

Im still leaning towards the Doosan, but I am going to take a look at the Haas in the morning, its only half hr drive away. Got to at least look at it. Any suggestions on things to look for? Ill listen to spindle, and travel of machine, check backlash. What else should I do? Should I make a test bar to take with me and check tailstock taper? I guess it would be nice to dial the ID pockets to spindle but thats fair bit of work. Ill check if the OD tools are on center. Anything else I can do thats quick and easy? Fingers crossed that the spindle sounds like shit and I can just put it out of my mind lol.
 

Mtndew

Diamond
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Location
Michigan
Im in Newfoundland, Canada
Yeah,I can see how that would put a damper on your selection.

If the Haas is in tip top shape and you can make money with it and not have to put money into it for a while, then buy that one. And when you recoup the investment, sell it and buy a new one of your choice.
Or if the new one isn't going to hurt your wallet then that's a great option too.
 

empower

Titanium
Joined
Sep 8, 2018
this shouldnt even be a question. doosan hands down, every day of the year. haas is nothing but garbage.
 

MaxPrairie

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jul 9, 2015
I wouldn't give an SL a second look. The ST's from Haas are better machines. Depends on the type of work you are doing I guess. One of the shop owners I know called the other day asking how I like my ST-20, both of us have a mix of Haas and Doosan. I like the Haas control and size doesn't move the rest of the day after 20 minutes of running. About 3-4 tenths on diameter from cold to warm. He really likes his Doosan lathe, but dislikes the company behind them more. Most of my turning is various flavors of stainless.
 

dcrace

Aluminum
Joined
Jun 26, 2002
Location
U.S.A.
Stay far away from the Haas lathes, especially the older SL. We bought one early 2000's and ended up sending it back because it was more of an issue than anything I have ever run by far. Spindle amp issues, ZERO rigidity and horrible size deviation during the day. Not to mention the stupid ring that held the toolholder in the turret was a joke if you weren't meticulous with cleaning and lubing the threads. You are definitely better off doing some searching and getting a newer Mazak especially since you are probably proficient with the Mazatrol programming which can't be beat for 2 axis lathe work. In my opinion, an older Mazak or Doosan will be a much better practical investment even if it costs slightly more, you and your psychiatrist will thank me..lol. Doosan is a great choice but keep in mind, if you don't already have a CAM system in place with a decent post, programming could be a stumbling block.
 

mmurray70

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jan 11, 2003
Thanks for all the help guys. I did go look at the lathe. Its in very good shape. Was owned by a repair shop who hardly used it at all, pretty much all manual machines and this one cnc. It had its own room so was kept nice and clean. Hardly used at all, only 2000 spindle on hours. Basically one year use on it. Spindle and all movements are nice and quiet. Way covers dont have a single dent, and hardly even show much scratching from the normal sliding around.

Im still not big fan, but im having hard time not seeing this as a great deal. Comes with bunch of toolholders, nice few soft jaws, and a cam package included too. It has a gearbox, not to struck on the extra noise. But there are advantages too, has a ton of Z travel for the size of the machine. Like 36" vs 26 on doosan and its only like 10" more floorspace. That could come in handy on some jobs for me. Door opens up nice and wide for setting up or loading parts.

Were talking like $25k USD here at todays rates, and next to no shipping cost. Am i crazy not to be buying this or are they really that bad?
 

AJ H

Hot Rolled
Joined
Feb 5, 2019
Really depends on what you need to do. If you need high accuracy and lots of torque walk away. We have a 2007 that had a hard life playing demolition derby with itself prior to my tenure. The z way has a .001 bow in it and the spindle sounds like it's about to come unglued. But it makes +-.005 parts from 1018 and 6061 bar stock all day every day. The biggest thing is if it has the supported control or not, if the control has an analog load meter it's a ticking time bomb waiting to cost you $20K, not that you can't still buy it, but I would use that to leverage the price down.
 








 
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