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wondering about getting a cylindrical grinder

Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Location
Airstrip One, Oceania
But I have seen for a called pre-load on such bearings, be it wheel bearings, trans etc. With the pre-load you're not just taking it to zero, you're going a little tighter once zero is reached.
There's a process on Sportster swingarm bearings, uses a spring scale attached at a specific location to set the preload ...

My personal trick is to go to zero and back off just the slightest C hair ...
Which color ? :)
 

texasgeartrain

Titanium
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Location
Houston, TX
I haven't ever been able to find a preload spec of some sort. with as much stuff as is moving, hard too believe it would be a foot pound rotating spec would it be a shaft protrusion spec? or real old school so much time at this rpm to this temp

Yea, that's pretty funny. The answer is "noticeable drag", but not too much drag. Clearly defined for sure. :D

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I'd might go just a hair past free wheeling, or easy turning, till I can just feel the drag. Probably put a dial indicator on chuck side, and try to trust it back and forth, plus the up/down with 2x4. Note when your like zero and feel the movement of rotation.
 

michiganbuck

Diamond
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Location
Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
It seems like a noticeable drag on the spindle would be perhaps too much. I kinda think a pull tight with an arm swing (not bodyweight)would be the too far place so sharpie mark there, back off and then come back with a two or 3 fingers pull to the stop. Definitely, a hack job method and some true specs will be better.

Setting cold is a problem. *We need a real lathe guy to give advice

I have seen grinder spindle adjustment thread areas messed up with the holding screws made crazy tight.
 

john.k

Diamond
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Location
Brisbane Qld Australia
I have a Landis 16x72 Type C....the thing can grind millionths for all I know.....its followed me around since the 70s,tried to kill me a couple of times,latest trick was spilling oil all over a $200/hr crane truck ,costing me $400 to clean up the truck......then I put it and big radial drill on the concrete pad of my new shed ,and had to give the builder $500 cash extra to work around it.....Nice to have for my projects ,never earned me a penny that I can recall.....Customers pay for lathe work ,the dont even know what a millionth is,so why would they pay for it.
 

john.k

Diamond
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Location
Brisbane Qld Australia
Taper rollers used in a semi rotary application should have considerable preload ,other wise brinneling will occur at low hours.........Basically ,certain kinds of rollers used for wheel bearings,gearbox mainshafts ,etc should have about 004 endfloat,otherwise they will heat and seize......other types with suitable contact angles are used with heavy preload for truck axle pinions etc.
 

Garwood

Diamond
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Location
Oregon
So the lathe spindle is bad?

Pictures would sure help.

I've had a couple moderately knackered machines and the worst I had that I just could not make good parts on was a machine with an old Union steel 16" 4 jaw that was flat worn out. Somehow the slop in the jaws would let things move. I'm a big guy and I couldn't get it tight enough to not move. I'd like to know how you wear out a 4 jaw.
 

idacal

Hot Rolled
Joined
Aug 9, 2011
Location
new plymouth id
the picture size here is so small here nothing can be seen. the bearing races and shaft have indications of I guess its called fretting.
 

Milland

Diamond
Joined
Jul 6, 2006
Location
Hillsboro, New Hampshire
So the lathe spindle is bad?

Pictures would sure help.

I've had a couple moderately knackered machines and the worst I had that I just could not make good parts on was a machine with an old Union steel 16" 4 jaw that was flat worn out. Somehow the slop in the jaws would let things move. I'm a big guy and I couldn't get it tight enough to not move. I'd like to know how you wear out a 4 jaw.

That's actually fairly easy. Wear away the "T" slot, now the jaw rocks. When it rocks (flares outward) you essentially get point contact at the back of the jaws. Not to hard to get movement on a shaft even being really tight. Add that slop in the T slot, and it's lights-out in Accuracy City.
 

idacal

Hot Rolled
Joined
Aug 9, 2011
Location
new plymouth id
I built a longer reach tool post grinder just to clean up the jaws on a couple of chucks for the lathe I used to have. I dont remember how i put them under load I think had a ring that I clamped the jaws on at the very tips. then ground inside the ring
 

michiganbuck

Diamond
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Location
Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
A most ridiculous way to put jaws under load is to put a small C clamp on each jaw and run a stack of rubber bands from each C clamp to some holding method.
And of even more precision of a shim fits in the jaw slot put it in.

This actually will work...but I have not tried it....yet.
 

idacal

Hot Rolled
Joined
Aug 9, 2011
Location
new plymouth id
well you guys were right, its not my bearings, changed them out. exact same finish as before. I did finally find some movement while under light load. I thought I had checked this before I changed the bearings, obviously I hadn't. the whole saddle is moving horizonal side to side on the v way. I ran an indicator on the vertical side non worn side of the v and every time my finish changed the indicator would move, I really don't want to tackle taking apart that saddle, all Im going to see is massive wear and then I have to fix it. I dont think this lathe is worth the time and money its going to take to fix right. but when its hammering its way through welding build up I really like this old thing. I guess I will start saving for another quite a bit smaller lathe and move this one out under a lean to for when I need the length. I have been looking at 14x60 or 16x60 polish lathes but not sure what route to go. I usually dont find cream puff deals so american is probably out.
 

gbent

Diamond
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Location
Kansas
My guess is the ways are worn in the saddle enough the saddle is setting on the flat on top of v way. This can be fixed with a angle grinder without any disassemble. Another possibility is the carriage is setting on the tailstock flat way. This will require removing the carriage to fix, which is not really a big effort.

Run your saddle down to the tailstock end and see how the saddle behaves.
 

Garwood

Diamond
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Location
Oregon
well you guys were right, its not my bearings, changed them out. exact same finish as before. I did finally find some movement while under light load. I thought I had checked this before I changed the bearings, obviously I hadn't. the whole saddle is moving horizonal side to side on the v way. I ran an indicator on the vertical side non worn side of the v and every time my finish changed the indicator would move, I really don't want to tackle taking apart that saddle, all Im going to see is massive wear and then I have to fix it. I dont think this lathe is worth the time and money its going to take to fix right. but when its hammering its way through welding build up I really like this old thing. I guess I will start saving for another quite a bit smaller lathe and move this one out under a lean to for when I need the length. I have been looking at 14x60 or 16x60 polish lathes but not sure what route to go. I usually dont find cream puff deals so american is probably out.

I have looked at a handful of good looking Series 60 Monarchs like yours with wrecked ways. Enough of them to wonder why?

My 1951 Axelson was side by side with a same size 1952 Monarch at a GE facility. They were both clean machines, but the Monarch ways were destroyed. The Axelson is like new. Interestingly, I paid $1800 for my Axelson and somebody else paid $3500 for that Monarch. Kinda blew my mind. There was a 1/16" gone off the Monarch ways.

The saddle isn't usually terrible to pull off. The apron is a huge job though. Like Gbent said, you could probably put a few hours into figuring exactly what's wrong and either dress the ways with a grinder or pull saddle and mill reliefs. Might be easier than moving in a different lathe.
 

gbent

Diamond
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Location
Kansas
I don't know about your machine, but later model Monarch lathes have guide pads under the saddle that bear on the tailstock flat way. These would be my first place to look. Possibly they were adjusted by someone who had no idea what they were doing.

Later model Monarch lathes have to have the saddle and apron removed as a unit. Not really a big issue, but you have to pull the rod/shaft/screw.
 

idacal

Hot Rolled
Joined
Aug 9, 2011
Location
new plymouth id
I took out the felts and Put some bluing on the top of the v way and on the tailstock way and it was dragging on the tailstock way that one had oil channels in the saddle but it was deffinetly riding in the tailstock way and loose on the v up close to the chuck. I took off the saddle stuck it in the mill And cleaned it up. Taking it apart wasnt to bad besides taking off the taper attachment those are bears to deal with. set the saddle back on the ways and have about .006 clearance on the tailstock way with a feeler gauge at the worst spot on the v way. Probably took to much off but didnt have any way to really maesure it with out reseting in the mill multiple times.
 








 
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