Would lengthy blackouts create new manufacturing opportunities?

[latheman78]

Couple of things here f16. One is that solar panels don't mind "being blasted with sand" and the other thing is that the USA has an area of 3.797 million square miles so 3 square miles to run a steel mill is less then one millionth of the area of the USA.

For those that don't want solar, you will all be able to buy expensive grid power in the future. You don't really think that high oil prices won't show up on your electric bill, do you f16?

Solar panels are effected by sand, so you once again are posting misinformation, just like your claim a solar farm was running a steel mill.

Here are comments on the effects of sand, and it is not coming from Fox News: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30392173/

 

[michiganbuck]

Russia-China-Iran-North Korea and perhaps a South American country.

 

[john.k]

If cheap gas prices are your only reason for existance.....then Iran has 15c/l...60c/gallon,and no doubt China also has cheap prices due to the clever move of buying heavily discounted Russian crude..... reported that China is sending all its out of date army ration packs in exchange .....hope the Russkys like rice.

 

[Big B]

Cockroach

Nothing is going to buy anyone more time for real solutions. Real solutions don't make big money for CEOs and stockbrokers. Therefore, they will never happen. Therefore, the current ecology of the world will crash and with any luck, humans will be one of the animals that go extinct.

Without a doubt it will cause changes on a scale that humans have never seen before. Animal life may have to start all over from cockroaches ?

Cockroaches aren't animals. They're insects.

The mill he referred to isn't running, it is way behind schedule and 15% complete as of last writing. The solar plant that hopes to power 55% of it by 2026 takes up almost 3 square miles. Right now this all but a pipe dream. When anyone pimping green energy makes claims that make your head spin and feel way behind the times it is best to do some research. You will find calling what they claimed pure embellishment an understatement.

Kind of on the level of 9mm bullets blowing your lungs out of your body, and that came from Biden.

Hey citizenf16, you need to go back and read that article again. The solar is planned to make 55% of the power for the entire municipality, not just the steel plant.

And you just outed yourself as f16 again when you mentioned the 9mm bullets blowing the lungs out of a human like you were posting as f16 a month or so ago. And same as I responded to you back then, I'm pretty sure that a 9mm bullet could blow part of a lung out of a 4 year old child. Maybe just not a big ex football player like you.

Does Spain have it's own version of Qanon craziness or do you all use the same one that we have in the USA?

Could you provide a credible link to the free abortions in California with free airfare? Is this like the "every illegal immigrant will get $445,000" thing that the right wing crazies are always putting out?

Which is exactly what I pointed out. Along with the fact that every watt of power that comes from the solar panels is a watt that won't have to come from burning fossil fuels and when the steel plant isn't running the solar will run a lot of homes.

 

[Big B]

Solar panels are effected by sand, so you once again are posting misinformation, just like your claim a solar farm was running a steel mill.

Here are comments on the effects of sand, and it is not coming from Fox News: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30392173/

And they didn't say a word about how much power loss there if from dust but I use solar panels in the Arizona desert all winter and the ones on the ground are at about a 30 degree angle and need virtually no cleaning. When I do clean them off the gain in wattage is marginal, like 5 or 7 watts on a 600 watt array. Hardly enough to make a lot of difference in any real practical sense. And if over a course of years they need cleaning, you clean them. It isn't like a coal or gas fired power plant needs zero maintenance either.

 

[latheman78]

And they didn't say a word about how much power loss there if from dust but I use solar panels in the Arizona desert all winter and the ones on the ground are at about a 30 degree angle and need virtually no cleaning. When I do clean them off the gain in wattage is marginal, like 5 or 7 watts on a 600 watt array. Hardly enough to make a lot of difference in any real practical sense. And if over a course of years they need cleaning, you clean them. It isn't like a coal or gas fired power plant needs zero maintenance either.

The Arizona desert is not the same as the Southern California lower desert of which there is a lot of square miles of, in many a SoCal desert the sand is like silt and if you need something large sandblasted, put it on a flat bed and tow it down I-10 between Banning and Indio during a sand storm. Because of sandstorms visibility goes down to similar to blizzard conditions.

Like I said before, I have no issues with working green power into the equation, just sick of greenies lying trying to sell their narrative. I am equally sick of the counter arguments lying.

~~~~~~~Mod Note~~~~~~~~
Deleted personal attacks
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[thermite]

.....hope the Russkys like rice.

Anything with starch in it.

Bound to be able to trod it into mash with unwashed & mouldy bare feet to brew Sake out of it in stolen flush-toilets .....as a substi-hoot for Wodka, yah?

The rate the delegation they sent to London when C&W was messing-about with a Trans-Siberian data network JV consumed alcohol?

Come the REAL heat of a summer war in Ukraine, the Russian survivors will likely spontaneously combust from the friction of taking a whizz.

 

[Scottl]

On the subject of extended blackouts they would certainly harm more people than might benefit from new opportunities.

And if an extended blackout did occur, the very first question should be why this should be happening to a nation dependent on technology so many years after the Great Northeast Blackout of 1965, where power was mostly restored in less than 24 hours. Here in New England we've had some regional extended blackouts where winter storms took down overhead wires near trees but these mostly affected more rural customers.

So what would a likely reason be?

Lack of sufficient spares of critical equipment like transformers, made worse by buying them overseas instead of manufacturing them ourselves?

General degradation of transmission wires and other parts of the grid?

Or over-reliance on "green" sources that are not at this stage of development suitable replacements for existing sources?

The fact that we are having this discussion should raise even more questions.

 

[Big B]

So I see that two people can't say the same thing or believe in the same thing or you accuse them of being the same person or a disciple of the other. Anyone who believes in the basic Republican platform as does Trump is a trump worshiper or whatever you call them. They could even be a Russian using translating software.

The Arizona desert is not the same as the Southern California lower desert of which there is a lot of square miles of, in many a SoCal desert the sand is like silt and if you need something large sandblasted, put it on a flat bed and tow it down I-10 between Banning and Indio during a sand storm. Because of sandstorms visibility goes down to similar to blizzard conditions.

Like I said before, I have no issues with working green power into the equation, just sick of greenies lying trying to sell their narrative. I am equally sick of the counter arguments lying.

Every time you get caught posting BS, you back pedal, that is obvious. I will wait for my warning that I should ignore the troll. Why don't they just get rid of the trolls, that would be so much easier,.

Of course the desert in Arizona is different than the desert in California. Mostly because one is in Arizona and the other is in California. I've been in both deserts plenty.

And here you are trolling me just like you did as f16.

 

[Big B]

~~~~~~~~Mod Note~~~~~~~
Political baiting post deleted
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Big B]

~~~~~~~~~Mod Note~~~~~
Off topic political post deleted.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Big B]

On the subject of extended blackouts they would certainly harm more people than might benefit from new opportunities.

And if an extended blackout did occur, the very first question should be why this should be happening to a nation dependent on technology so many years after the Great Northeast Blackout of 1965, where power was mostly restored in less than 24 hours. Here in New England we've had some regional extended blackouts where winter storms took down overhead wires near trees but these mostly affected more rural customers.

So what would a likely reason be?

Lack of sufficient spares of critical equipment like transformers, made worse by buying them overseas instead of manufacturing them ourselves?

General degradation of transmission wires and other parts of the grid?

Or over-reliance on "green" sources that are not at this stage of development suitable replacements for existing sources?

The fact that we are having this discussion should raise even more questions.

All this hand wringing over the power grid. I stopped and talked to some contractors recently that were working on putting some new power poles in to replace old ones. It was easy to see that the new poles had more wires on them than the old ones. The contractor boss told me that the old poles had a bare wire running across the tops of the poles to act as a lightning arrestor whereas the new ones have fiber optic cables on top. I asked him if the fiber optic also acts as a lightning arrestor and he said it does. So the communications and power grid are being updated as I type this. A different company is also directional boring new fiber optic lines in the street nearby. It's a major line too with three cables of fiber about 1 1/2 or 2" diameter in the chase.

Gotta love how some people will keep saying "we can't do that" even while "that" is already happening.

 

[Thunderjet]

And if an extended blackout did occur, the very first question should be why this should be happening to a nation dependent on technology

I'm curious about the battery technology that runs cars, and it being used for a backup power system for a residence.

If you have a tesla, can you "back feed" power to your house?

Maybe something like this already exists, but I'm unaware of it.

Could you keep essential systems running from such a battery settup?

 

[jaguar36]

I'm curious about the battery technology that runs cars, and it being used for a backup power system for a residence.

If you have a tesla, can you "back feed" power to your house?

Maybe something like this already exists, but I'm unaware of it.

Could you keep essential systems running from such a battery settup?

Tesla's can't, however the electric F-150 can do this.

 

[mrSanders62]

the point is not only whether the electric car can give energy in house or not, technologically it is not so difficult to do this. look at the global situation. a normal system always has a reserve or margin of power / strength. and if earlier 100% of traditional energy is the necessary reserve (I don’t know how much it is in percentage, but it is) then with the introduction of green energy under the capitalist system, the energy industry received an imbalance and lack of reserve. no one will, at a loss, keep a lot of gas or coal power plants just like that, in the expectation that when they are needed, if something goes wrong with the wind or the sun

 

[Scottl]

Tesla's can't, however the electric F-150 can do this.

Indeed it can. However, getting set up to do this ain't cheap.
$56,000 to $90,000 for the truck.
Charge Station Pro $1,310 plus shipping, taxes and installation.
Home Integration System $3,895 plus installation.

How Can the Electric Ford F-150 Lightning Power a House for 10 Days?

With the right equipment, a 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning can power your home when the grid goes down.

www.newsweek.com

By contrast, a Generac 10kW natural gas powered generator is about $3,200 for a base model plus installation and can run a house for weeks, including while you're driving the truck.

A 10kW gasoline powered Honda unit runs about $5,600.

 

[latheman78]

I'm curious about the battery technology that runs cars, and it being used for a backup power system for a residence.

If you have a tesla, can you "back feed" power to your house?

Maybe something like this already exists, but I'm unaware of it.

Could you keep essential systems running from such a battery settup?

I don't see why not as long as you had the appropriate inverter feeding a transformer set up.

 

[standardparts]

Of course the desert in Arizona is different than the desert in California. Mostly because one is in Arizona and the other is in California. I've been in both deserts plenty.

And here you are trolling me just like you did as f16.

All deserts are not the same. \

But you know that seeing plenty of deserts. Different kinds of deserts present different challenges but also different benefits.

 

[latheman78]

All deserts are not the same. \

But you know what seeing plenty of deserts. Different kinds of deserts present different challenges but also different benefits.

My comment was regarding the viability of solar panels, there is plenty of cheap, barren flat land in deserts that would be a good place for a solar farm, but blowing sand would not be friendly to them.

 

[standardparts]

My comment was regarding the viability of solar panels, there is plenty of cheap, barren flat land in deserts that would be a good place for a solar farm, but blowing sand would not be friendly to them.

Don't know about environmental details regarding solar panels. "Deserts" are not created equal and I suspect that not all desert land is optimum for solar panel. Guess it all depends on who has rights to the land and the cost of infrastructure like transmission lines to move the electrical energy where it's needed.

Of course most roadblocks experienced today will be dealt with and not be an issue in the future.

Link below to an interesting article regarding the experience of the Navajo Nation transitioning from coal to solar. (so far two solar fields with about 220,000 panels).

The Navajo Nation’s transition to renewable energy: what and where to expect it

Since the closure of the Peabody Black Mesa coal mine near the four corners region in northeast Arizona, the Navajo Nation has established a transition from coal to renewable energy sources, like solar power.

www.nhonews.com