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Would lengthy blackouts create new manufacturing opportunities?

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And at the risk of getting the "bad boy off topic" demerit points...But since the possibility of a hot summer in a Midwestern state was brought up let me mention this:

If your running an old beater vehicle with A/C that works and uses R134 you just might want to snag a few cans for topping off purposes. Yeah R134. Don't wait.
 
This just in my INBOX today:




MEC - click for website
NEWS
You may have seen reports about electric reliability issues facing Michigan this summer. Here’s what that means for MEC:

The electric grid is a complicated and connected system with many players. MEC does our part by connecting the wires from the high voltage transmission lines to your home, but there are others you don’t generally hear about. One such player is a grid operator, which is an independent, third-party entity that manages the nation’s electric grid. These operators ensure the system works efficiently and reliably, and they predict and control the supply of electricity. Last April, one of our regional operators, MISO, announced the results of their annual generation audit that determines if there is sufficient supply to meet demand. The results for this summer are concerning. Nine northern states, including Michigan, are 1,200 megawatts short of the supply needed to keep the lights on when demand is highest. That equals 876,000 households.

If temperatures soar this summer, MISO could require blackouts to control electric load. If they do, we will have to comply.

What is driving the shortfall? Simply put, the power grid is changing. Primarily, coal and nuclear are retiring and being replaced mainly by weather-dependent renewable energy. The challenge placed on the grid is that for every megawatt of coal and nuclear that is retired, at least 2 megawatts (often more) of solar and 10 megawatts of wind are needed to replace that supply. This is because renewables need the right sun and wind to generate electricity whereas coal and nuclear plants can run more consistently. Therefore, more renewables are needed to make up for the times they can’t run. Additionally, it is impossible to permit a new coal plant, new nuclear is extremely cost prohibitive, and natural gas is becoming more challenging to permit. Our options are limited.

There is the potential for this problem to get worse. While we are already facing power supply shortages, nearly 10% of Michigan’s generating fleet of coal and nuclear plants are slated for early retirement in the next three years. We can’t let power plant closures get ahead of the new generation that must be built to replace them.

You can help by making your voice heard with legislators. Scroll down for more information on our Voices for Cooperative Power program.

The purpose of this email isn’t to scare you; it’s to prepare you and help you understand what we’re dealing with.

We will also continue our hard work of monitoring, maintaining, and upgrading our equipment as needed to ensure that MEC’s infrastructure can handle our demand. And we will do our part to make sure that our elected officials understand the impact of premature plant closures.

Sincerely,
Robert Hance, President/CEO
WE NEED YOUR HELP.
MEC has partnered with other electric co-ops from around the state and country to utilize Voices for Cooperative Power (VCP), a network of co-op members working together to express our concerns with policymakers.

I encourage you to sign up and participate.
Voice for Cooperative Power - United for stronger communitees
Please join the movement by signing up with VCP today and share your co-op story!
©2022 Midwest Energy & Communications
60590 Decatur Rd • Cassopolis, MI 49031 • USA
800.492.5989 • [email protected]
FacebookYouTubeInstagram



-------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
A good breakdown here. It is refreshing for a candid review of these things to explain this. Texas was a big problem and these grids being maxed out so much seem to be a problem overall. Any State that experiences this is in good company it seems. Solutions are more productive to consider rather than dissing a State with these infrastructure and power generation requirements.
There are these challenges as laid out in the article from experts on the grid. Adding the charging capacity of the growing EV market will bring growing needs.
 
This just in my INBOX today:




MEC - click for website
NEWS
You may have seen reports about electric reliability issues facing Michigan this summer. Here’s what that means for MEC:

The electric grid is a complicated and connected system with many players. MEC does our part by connecting the wires from the high voltage transmission lines to your home, but there are others you don’t generally hear about. One such player is a grid operator, which is an independent, third-party entity that manages the nation’s electric grid. These operators ensure the system works efficiently and reliably, and they predict and control the supply of electricity. Last April, one of our regional operators, MISO, announced the results of their annual generation audit that determines if there is sufficient supply to meet demand. The results for this summer are concerning. Nine northern states, including Michigan, are 1,200 megawatts short of the supply needed to keep the lights on when demand is highest. That equals 876,000 households.

If temperatures soar this summer, MISO could require blackouts to control electric load. If they do, we will have to comply.

What is driving the shortfall? Simply put, the power grid is changing. Primarily, coal and nuclear are retiring and being replaced mainly by weather-dependent renewable energy. The challenge placed on the grid is that for every megawatt of coal and nuclear that is retired, at least 2 megawatts (often more) of solar and 10 megawatts of wind are needed to replace that supply. This is because renewables need the right sun and wind to generate electricity whereas coal and nuclear plants can run more consistently. Therefore, more renewables are needed to make up for the times they can’t run. Additionally, it is impossible to permit a new coal plant, new nuclear is extremely cost prohibitive, and natural gas is becoming more challenging to permit. Our options are limited.

There is the potential for this problem to get worse. While we are already facing power supply shortages, nearly 10% of Michigan’s generating fleet of coal and nuclear plants are slated for early retirement in the next three years. We can’t let power plant closures get ahead of the new generation that must be built to replace them.

You can help by making your voice heard with legislators. Scroll down for more information on our Voices for Cooperative Power program.

The purpose of this email isn’t to scare you; it’s to prepare you and help you understand what we’re dealing with.

We will also continue our hard work of monitoring, maintaining, and upgrading our equipment as needed to ensure that MEC’s infrastructure can handle our demand. And we will do our part to make sure that our elected officials understand the impact of premature plant closures.

Sincerely,
Robert Hance, President/CEO
WE NEED YOUR HELP.
MEC has partnered with other electric co-ops from around the state and country to utilize Voices for Cooperative Power (VCP), a network of co-op members working together to express our concerns with policymakers.

I encourage you to sign up and participate.
Voice for Cooperative Power - United for stronger communitees
Please join the movement by signing up with VCP today and share your co-op story!
©2022 Midwest Energy & Communications
60590 Decatur Rd • Cassopolis, MI 49031 • USA
800.492.5989 • [email protected]
FacebookYouTubeInstagram



-------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
So transitioning to renewables takes 2-10 times more capacity to replace coal or nuclear? Are they 2-10 times cheaper than coal or nuclear?
 
When the truck's windows are up my dog gets too hot and when he's too hot he refuses to push the start/stop on the CNC. Guess that makes this a reply about manufacturing opportunities.
If you "drive 55" with all the winders down, you'll make the dog very happy, and get rid of a bunch of springtime shedding....:D
 
If you "drive 55" with all the winders down, you'll make the dog very happy, and get rid of a bunch of springtime shedding....:D
That's me lol. My old car finally died, daily driving my yj wrangler now. Even if it had AC I couldn't use it. Need every inch pound of torque the 4 angry squirrels under the hood can push out just to turn the tires. Removable doors are good for ventilation tho.
 
Back to the OP.
I toured a "Melt Shop" a few years back.
They have a 50 ton Arc furnace, feeding into a 100 ton
mixing arc & induction furnace.

I asked if they have to communicate with the local power plant whenever they light up.

The tour guide indicated that no, they don't, however they had a large LED display indicating something dealing with input power (voltage maybe) and everyone was to keep an eye on it, and not exceed
some number.
I was told that during the hot summers, they have to slow down somewhat, as the grid is overloaded.

So yes, manuf will slow down.
 
QT: ("There is a global effort underway to radically transform the way humans exist on earth.)

It is called a big war, and I hope we don't have one.

A big surprise on the grid is when we try to add home heating, Industrial manufacturing, plus all the cars and trucks, It is very likely we will need to increase the grid by 120% to avoid blackouts.
With that many windmills and solar panels, there won't be any room for people.
I seriously think the people pushing non-fossil fuel have considered that






g
People pushing fossil fuel are also heavily into alternative energies. Have you ever been to the southwest where the sun shines a lot? There are solar farms there that are utility scale and not just some homeowners, although there are more and more homeowners going solar too. It's too late to put the genie back in the bottle for good reason. I makes sense to use the sun for energy instead of burning fossil fuels.
 
We can barely avoid blackout with the grid we have now and...

If you need 1,000kWh electric power per month (the current average), then you will need 1,000/36 panels = 28 solar panels. A single 300w panel measures 3.5 feet by 5 feet so you will need nearly 400 square feet of roof space to install a system of this size, and you should expect to pay around $22,000 for the installation and equipment. and then add maintenance and repair.

400SF = 20 x20' .and this is a roof facing the right way, south. likely only half one's roof faces that way and many houses don't have a south-facing roof.
That average electric usage is with most homes using fossil fuel for home heating. Adding home heating would about double the demand, so we likely need close to 30x30' (28.3x 28.3) space, facing south.

Cold hard facts nobody seems/wants to tell.
News flash. You don't need a roof to mount solar panels on. They can be mounted on the ground and often are. Where did you get the idea that solar panels can only be mounted on a roof? I won't post my thoughts on where you get that from.
 
News flash. You don't need a roof to mount solar panels on. They can be mounted on the ground and often are. Where did you get the idea that solar panels can only be mounted on a roof? I won't post my thoughts on where you get that from.
Because that is one place where it/they might be put. We could have a 1/4 mile space for every one-mile space of residential homes. Figure a 20' x 20' space for every small /average home.
 
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A good breakdown here. It is refreshing for a candid review of these things to explain this. Texas was a big problem and these grids being maxed out so much seem to be a problem overall. Any State that experiences this is in good company it seems. Solutions are more productive to consider rather than dissing a State with these infrastructure and power generation requirements.
There are these challenges as laid out in the article from experts on the grid. Adding the charging capacity of the growing EV market will bring growing needs.
Uhh, lessee, who is that who is publishing that? Let me look it up, please wait...........

Yeah that is convincing
 
Here is a kit that will run 4 100watt light bulbs when the sun is out.
40"x 27" x 3 or 40" x 81" just for 4 light bulbs.

Running a washing machine with hot water it may take 1000 to 2000 watts..
We just spent another winter living almost all on solar in my fifth wheel trailer. Three 280 watt panels and 600 watts on the ground and we had plenty of power. And if you are on the grid you don't need 100% of your power to come from the solar. Any power that your panels produce is power that doesn't need to come from the power company. Many home systems also put power back into the grid when the sun is high in the sky and people are at work so their homes aren't needing much power.

If you had been alive 125 years ago you'd be one of the people saying that automobiles will never work because there is no place to fill them with gasoline.
 
Uhh, lessee, who is that who is publishing that? Let me look it up, please wait...........

Yeah that is convincing
My thoughts exactly. What do you expect to hear from an organization that pumps up the fossil fuel industry.
 
We just spent another winter living almost all on solar in my fifth wheel trailer. Three 280 watt panels and 600 watts on the ground and we had plenty of power. And if you are on the grid you don't need 100% of your power to come from the solar. Any power that your panels produce is power that doesn't need to come from the power company. Many home systems also put power back into the grid when the sun is high in the sky and people are at work so their homes aren't needing much power.

If you had been alive 125 years ago you'd be one of the people saying that automobiles will never work because there is no place to fill them with gasoline.

I'm quite impressed at your use of solar power. What is your total investment to take advantage of that Arizona(?) sunshine?
 
I am dubious that there is some kind of global conspiracy to somehow make gas illegal.
That is understandable.

Think of these sort of people as if they were naive children trying to save the planet from a perceived eminent threat - not maniacal villains attempting to take over the world.

Social scientists, climate scientists, politicians, non-governmental organizations, political activists and corporations make up the thinkers and doers moving this ideology forward.

A set of goals is set: 50% reduction in carbon by date X, 100% carbon neutrality by 2050. They plan everything non stop and in great detail. The thing is, if you try to read much of it, you never get the full picture. They will go into detail about how smart appliances will reduce the load on the grid.

They don't tell you that smart appliances will control if/when they operate and for how long, or that if you are found to be using far too much electricity, they can reduce the amount available to you through your smart meter.

This is a run away train of conservation extremism. The two best descriptive terms I have heard to provide an accurate description can be summed up as; “people who conceive of the planet as a machine amendable to control engineering.” doing so by way of "authoritarian modernization".

They don't care if the economy fails, they have a plan to rebuild a new one and retrain everyone for new green worker jobs (I am not exaggerating one bit). The only thing is - who gets trained for what job is dependent upon your historical victimhood status. Not your qualifications or your abilities. Those who are seen as the oppressed will be lifted above those who are seen as the oppressor - this is what equity means.

The world is being rebuilt in a new image, I mean entirely. You and I do not get to keep our business. It literally won't be possible because we will not be provided the energy needed to run machines.

The new model of global governance that comes with this plan is not what you would think either. Controls will be through "influence and incentivize" methods over legislation whenever possible. They make the easy way very accessible and the hard way very expensive.

Things deemed to be bad for the collective goal such as fossil fuels will not be sold at standard market value...that would not be "equitable". Fuel, plastics, pollutants and virgin materials will be assessed for their impact and additional charges added to make up it's "true value".

Most people who don't already know what I'm talking about find it extremely difficult to even comprehend. Its so large and vast that I find it extremely difficult to explain.

The very large number of people working to initiate this stuff legitimately think they can reengineer human civilization by force and make it happen in less than 30 years. They are passionate, excited and extremely motivated. They call it "taking bold action". Humans have never taken such vast and incredibly risky actions in all of history.

The whole thing is moving much faster than technology can even account for so when a government decides to ban construction of coal fired power plants and then warns of black outs, you should know that it has only just begun. Remember Texas and the frozen wind turbines? These things will happen and the planners know it, they don't care though because without immediate action, the world will become uninhabitable.


^^please take a moment and quickly browse this^^

The end goal is a perfect utopia where whoever is left will "have to make sacrifices" in order to live 100% sustainable lifestyles - no matter the cost. What is sustainable? No one knows, there is no defined limit. Consider it, the minimum necessary resource allowance to keep people from revolting. Life might be a little better than that but not by much.

This ends in one of three ways:
1.) The entire thing goes as planned and the lifestyle of all people is perfectly engineered to coincide with nature as determined by authoritarian climate scientists.

2.) Any one part of the plan fails, millions of people die and they try again.

3.) Individual regions (ex-nations) have varied levels of success while others end up in all out warfare once the people begin to see what is happening.

A good number of people on this forum have shown extreme displeasure at the software change here. If they had any idea what is coming and the impact it will have on their lives... Well, arguing red vs blue political crap would disappear entirely.

Keep an eye on New York. They have a very aggressive approach and a committee has already begun writing up a plan. They have life all figured out for the citizens of New York.



Here is an excellent article from a climate supporter about the challenges of democracy and climate scientists.

 
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