Very old, very unusual design drillpress

slnielsen · Nov 5, 2012

Hi.

Joe and I have had a little talk about a drill press in this thread :

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...f-bancroft-co-worcester-ma-wood-lathe-254859/

Now that I have some more info I thought I would start my own.

I wrote an email to the museum where I saw the drill, and the director of was so kind
to answer, with both photos and the story of it.

The museum got in 1990, from a banker, called N.A. C. Jensen, who himself got it in 1930, from a company called Paasch & Larsen, Petersen. They later turned to into a company called Pasilac.
They do not have any further history on it, but have a suspicion, that it was shopmade, maybe as an final exam for an apprentice.

Enjoy the photos, I haven't seen anything like it before.

(When the handle is used, the balls rotate, creating a centrifugal force, forcing the spindle downwards, acting like a automatic feed.
Works like a charm, I used it 20 years ago, on a visit to the museum)

Best regards
Søren

Photos and story courtesy of Danmarks Industrimuseum, Ole Puggaard

Joe in NH · Nov 6, 2012

slnielsen said:
Hi.

Joe E and I have had a little talk about a drill press in this thread :

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...f-bancroft-co-worcester-ma-wood-lathe-254859/
Enjoy the photos, I haven't seen anything like it before.

Nice pix. I have and no I haven't seen anything like this on this side of the pond.

I see EXACTLY how it works. The perfect tool for the two handed drill person. One of the failings of most of these is that feed must be somehow "controlled" by a ratchet or a gear feed. This does away with that necessity.

Besides that it also makes the drill contact the work IMMEDIATELY while with a ratchet or gear feed, one has to wait for the drill to come down and contact the surface of the work - unless one hurries it along somehow.

I might say now that it looks like something of DESIGN and not COBBLED. It's too finely finished and thought out. Like something you would see in a turn of the 20th century catalog.

Very nice. Thank you for going to the extra step to bring this to us.

Joe in NH

JoeE. · Nov 6, 2012

Looks like a good way to get teeth knocked out!

slnielsen · Nov 6, 2012

Must be why the paint on the balls are gone on the outside?

jkruger · Nov 6, 2012

slnielsen said:
Must be why the paint on the balls are gone on the outside?

I think the missing paint is from bashing the operator on the noggin (or anything else within range)! It seems to me that the faster you spin the drill, the more feed force it would provide, varied by the position of the balls relative to the pivot points. (When they are at the equator they apply no downward force on the spindle, and when at the bottom of their travel they would apply much more.

The variations of centrifugal force and angles and fulcrums and velocity are at this point in time beyond my mental capacity as I have had a couple of drinks and need to go hit the sack.

Riderusty · Nov 6, 2012

Looks like elements of a Goodell Pratt drill are present. Maybe someone more expert than I in antique hand tools could identify it and tell us if it is shop-made or an unusual production model.

Tom B.

slnielsen · Nov 6, 2012

Riderusty said:
Looks like elements of a Goodell Pratt drill are present. Maybe someone more expert than I in antique hand tools could identify it and tell us if it is shop-made or an unusual production model.

Tom B.

For me the casting looks to good to be a one off as well. It would be very fascinating if the maker could be found.

Søren

peter · Nov 6, 2012

Here is a similar fly ball drill discussed:

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antique-machinery-history/balls-out-drilling-115283/

I though I saw another one time, it might have been the above post. Or it could be a Goodell Pratt.
I have an older Goodell Pratt catalog and did not see one - so .... I dont know.

Here is a pic of my common Goodell Pratt drill

Greg Menke · Nov 6, 2012

For Christmas my father gave me a Lindsay Book republication of a 1919 collection of essays from American Machinist, reminiscences of an old-time machinist. One discussed an enterprising apprentice who constructed a hand-operated drill of similar design but didn't use it much beyond the demonstration.

But I wonder if the design would work better if a flywheel & additional reduction from the handle were present? Otoh perhaps its fine for smaller drills in wood...

L Vanice · Nov 6, 2012

I looked at Goodell-Pratt drill patents. If the flyball feed was in production in the USA, I would expect it was patented.

Fred E. Farley patented a different self feeding version of the drill in 1910, the G-P model 490: Patent US973489 - PEED E - Google Patents

The main casting of the Denmark drill, the "common" Goodell-Pratt drill and the Farley patent drawing look pretty much alike. Farley and perhaps others at G-P must have spent some time trying to improve their drill. The fact that the Denmark drill works and has neat castings to suppport the fly balls suggests that the whole drill was made by G-P. The rarity suggests it was expensive and unpopular.

The cast upright G-P bench drills are shown in the G-P catalog 16 on pages 204 to 207. No fly ball feed, though. http://www.roseantiquetools.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/goodellprattno.16.pdf

Larry

D Dubeau · Nov 6, 2012

JoeE. said:
Looks like a good way to get teeth knocked out!

Maybe that's the machine they used to start cocky apprentices on? :ack2:

slnielsen · Nov 7, 2012

I have written to the Museum in Basingstoke, to hear if they can shed a light on this little mystery.
Cross your fingers, that I get a positive reply.

Søren

JHOLLAND1 · Nov 7, 2012

Søren

will this drill machine work with left twist drill bits?

j

slnielsen · Nov 7, 2012

JHOLLAND1 said:
Søren

will this drill machine work with left twist drill bits?

j

I don't see no reason it shouldn't.
As I remember it, it forced the spindle downwards no matter what way you turned.
Been 20 years, so could be a bit rusty.

Søren

slnielsen · Nov 12, 2012

Here is the answer from the English Museum. A bit disappointing.

"Dear Mr Nielsen

Thank you for your enquiry about the drill you saw at Milestones Museum.

I'm afraid that all I can tell you is that it is a centrifuge assisted drill, part of a collection of objects from the Gas Board about 15 years ago. Apparently the drill was thought to be unsafe to use and was forbidden. There doesn't seem to be a maker's mark on the drill or other clues to date it.

I haven't been able to take better photographs than those on your webite because the drill is firmly locked into its existing display.

Your sincerely

Oonagh Palmer "

That didn't help a lot..
Anyone got any other ideas?

Søren

Mike C. · Nov 12, 2012

Only problem with the feed system is that it indeed works exactly backwards to what would be ideal. You want heavy feed and low speed for large drills, high speed and light feed for small ones. As mentioned, faster you crank, the higher the feed rate.

slnielsen · Nov 28, 2012

Found some more in England.
One in France, with at different design, but same ball system.

Hand Operated Pillar Drills : Hand Tools - UKworkshop.co.uk

Best regards
Søren

Billtodd · Nov 28, 2012

Fascinating stuff Soren

Always surprises me why manufacturers don't identify their tools. It's something I've always admired about the best US tool makers - they seem to take enough pride in their work to make it with their name and address.

Bill

slnielsen · Nov 28, 2012

You have a point there Bill.
Looking at some of the old stuff from the US, with the ornaments and nice logos, makes me smile.
Pride was bigger then.

Søren

Nick Mueller · Nov 28, 2012

That drillpress must be the result of alcohol abuse.
Small drills need high RPM and little downfeed force.
Big drills need low RPM and more downfeed force.

How do you achieve that with this "prilldress"? Prilldress, because it works the wrong way round.

I hope, that the weights slammed a million times against the constructor's head.

Nick

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