1926 Seagrave Fire Engine Wheel Lug Washers

Crazy@VMS · May 26, 2014

I started a post called "Stimson...(I hope I spelled that right)" where I wrongly asked for parts and / or information for what should have been the 1926 Seagrave. My Bad,,,my really bad! Upon further conversation(s), I got the correct information for what the restoration éngineer' needs: the washers for the 900 x 24"inch tires.

It is a 1926 Seegrave. It has (what was soon to become) Dayton (style), four part, Split Rims [i.e. two outer rings & an inner ring]. The tires are 900 x 24" inch. The 'washer' (which is the part he really needs/wants me to make) has "Firestone" stamped on the back and the number "30" stamped on the front. The stud has a stamped, "Pat. (date) 3-12-1913" on the face of it.

The three pieces that hold the tires on (I'm not sure how many of these assembly's per tire--possibly 8):

The assembly:

Thanks,

Crazy@VMS

timvercoe · May 27, 2014

A 3D tracer milling machine since you have a pattern would be easy to trace one. Baring that end mills that have the right radius to cut the contours. That is if your going to make them...... I wonder if the local truck repair shop would recognise them and just order them.............Tim

BMyers · May 27, 2014

Check with Lang's Lang's Old Car Parts - Model T Parts Specialists they look a lot like late Model T splt rim lugs.

WHHJR · May 27, 2014

Check truck parts companies. There are many rim clamp designs. One off the shelf should do the job. Find some one that carries Euclid . If they don't have exactly what you want there may be another brand at the store.

2¢

WILLEO6709 · May 27, 2014

you may consider varying from original, alot of people have been hurt messing with old split rims,,,, get someone who knows the to evaluate them, may be cheaper to replace with 1 piece if you plan on driving it. One rarely sees the cages for them anymore....

johnoder · May 27, 2014

The cage mentioned (that I have seen used) was a structure welded up from heavy wall tubing that you roll the tire / wheel assembly into prior to inflation. Then, if something isn't right, instead of maiming/killing humans, it just makes a sort of contained explosion that scares hell out of everyone within 100 feet. This Packard had snap (lock?) ring wheels and the cage was used when it got new 6.50 - 20 Denman black walls to replace those GHASTLY whitewalls

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/johnoder/30Packard/03.jpg

WILLEO6709 said:
you may consider varying from original, alot of people have been hurt messing with old split rims,,,, get someone who knows the to evaluate them, may be cheaper to replace with 1 piece if you plan on driving it. One rarely sees the cages for them anymore....

jCandlish · May 27, 2014

I have done a bit of maintenance on split rim tires. With a length of 3/8" chain laced through the wheel holes and over the tire there is a great deal of safety. Most split rims are on 5-hole wheels. Five loops of chain over the ring doesn't' leave much space for it to escape. Take your time. Inspect the ring and its seat. If the ring doesn't ring it may have a hairline crack. There is very little that can go wrong if you are careful. Nobody says you have to inflate the tube to full pressure in one go.

Do you have the spoons?

Grigg · May 27, 2014

I think for a 1926 fire truck restoration sticking with original is what is called for.

Not all multi-piece wheels are bad either. However they all require common sense and respect.
You do want to stay away from wheels that are are rusted badly, cracked, modified, miss-matched components and the Firestone RH-5° design (which came out sometime a while later than 1926).

Have a look this chart of some of the many wheel designs, the Firestone RH-5° is on the bottom left. Also see a section of a real one below.

99Panhard · May 27, 2014

It looks to me as if those parts are from a "demountable rim" which is altogether different from the locking rings that are potentially dangerous. John's Packard had those... and the illustration above shows quite a few different patterns. My '26 Cadillac had them as well. I never had a problem with them but it was prudent to inflate the tire slowly, checking to see that the ring is properly seated. I lost a good many of my teeth to an earlier, much more primitive version on a 1905 Cadillac.

"Demountable Rims" are nowhere near as dangerous. They are often called "split" because they are compressed inward with a special tool in order to get them inside the tire but they have fixed lips on both sides so when released they are little different from a convention wheel. The rim is then attached to the wheel with the bolts and dogs shown above. These are actually a much earlier invention, going back to about 1906. Arguably, Locomobile lost its first Vanderbilt Cup challenge because they didn't have them. The rims would be fitted to the tires and inflated. Then, if you had a flat, you jacked the car up, unbolted the rim and tire and bolted a new one on.

Mud · May 27, 2014

The parts you need are not unique to fire engines, they are typical of all trucks of that era in different sizes and configurations. I don't know if they are reproduced, but I'll bet you can find used ones. You might even find a current production part from a truck parts source that would serve the purpose until you find authentic pieces. Try the antique truck forums for a starter -

Antique Truck Club of America | Antique Trucks | Classic Trucks | Vintage Trucks | Truck Collectors

American Truck Historical Society

JohnEvans · May 27, 2014

I spent 30+ years in the truck parts biz and those small clamps/clips were not available from Euclid-BWP etc. even back in 60s.
And later I collected big trucks and the guys with the Dayton style wheels on teens/20s stuff had fits trying to replace missing clamps.

jdavi581 · May 28, 2014

I used to work for seagrave, call them up and ask for Wayne Burr. Tell him Joe Davis sent ya, he has the prints I am sure.

(somewhere in the airplane hanger of prints that they have)
Joe

magneticanomaly · May 28, 2014

Ofen called "clips". If you can find an old truck wrecking yard, they will have buckets of them to dig through. Kober's in Washington, New Jersey comes to mind. No help to OP.

homer1917 · Nov 30, 2017

Greetings Crazy:
Did you ever solve this issue of wheel bolts and lugs. I also need couple of Firestone rim clamps and couple serrated wheel bolts...for my 26 Seagrave
Thanks
Don W

Illinoyance · Nov 30, 2017

If you have at least one good clip, use it to make a mold for a wax pattern. Have new clips investment cast.

johnoder · Nov 30, 2017

Thumbnail is replacement photo

johnoder said:
The cage mentioned (that I have seen used) was a structure welded up from heavy wall tubing that you roll the tire / wheel assembly into prior to inflation. Then, if something isn't right, instead of maiming/killing humans, it just makes a sort of contained explosion that scares hell out of everyone within 100 feet. This Packard had snap (lock?) ring wheels and the cage was used when it got new 6.50 - 20 Denman black walls to replace those GHASTLY whitewalls

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/johnoder/30Packard/03.jpg

Rudd · Dec 1, 2017

John, I worked at a warehouse in Ft.W back in the late 70's with a guy who had a large radius crescent shaped scar across his forehead. He was a bit slow from the injury, and he knew it. Truck tire at a shop out in NM.

homer1917 · Dec 12, 2017

Having Casting Quoted

Illinoyance said:
If you have at least one good clip, use it to make a mold for a wax pattern. Have new clips investment cast.

Did search for small run castings. Located one in Missouri.
Will let group know what cost is for making 40 pcs of a Firestone #30 wheel rim clamp...

Seagrave25 · Sep 26, 2021

1926 Seagrave Wheel Lugs

homer1917 said:
Did search for small run castings. Located one in Missouri.
Will let group know what cost is for making 40 pcs of a Firestone #30 wheel rim clamp...

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Hello homer1917, I realize that I am late to this discussion. I am looking for wheel lug bolts for my 1925 Seagrave 6WT 750 Pumper. I have the removable split rim wheels. There are 10 lug bolts on each wheel with clinchers and lug nuts. The bolts are 1/2-13 NC threaded.

The wheel lug bolts are very soft and the have stretched over the past 95 years. They are starting to snap off when tightened. Would you happen to know if these are available anywhere?

Thanks,
John
407-924-7011

johnoder · Sep 26, 2021

Seagrave25 said:
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Hello homer1917, I realize that I am late to this discussion. I am looking for wheel lug bolts for my 1925 Seagrave 6WT 750 Pumper. I have the removable split rim wheels. There are 10 lug bolts on each wheel with clinchers and lug nuts. The bolts are 1/2-13 NC threaded.

The wheel lug bolts are very soft and the have stretched over the past 95 years. They are starting to snap off when tightened. Would you happen to know if these are available anywhere?

Thanks,
John
407-924-7011

Homer last visited forum December 2017 - I see if you click on his user name you could try emailing him

1926 Seagrave Fire Engine Wheel Lug Washers

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