Hardinge/Bridgeport V1000 up and running

Sei2003 · May 1, 2016

I have posted in other threads during my decision making process but chose to start a new thread going forward so my feedback on my choice doesn't get buried in conversations of the other brands we considered.
So Friday was the first day of training on the new machine. So far I am really excited, but not surprising since we are replacing a 10+ year old machine with this new V1000. I am glad we went with the 12k spindle and so far for what we do, the Mits control seems pretty easy to run and familiar from the Fanuc we have used for so long. Excited to dive into more training this week and looking forward to the arrival of the second machine in late June or early July.

cameraman · May 1, 2016

What do you think of the build quality (so far)..? Was there anything that was a real stand out from how you imagined the machine to be versus having it physically be there and actually doing stuff/under power? Was it a good/smooth install? Thanks for creating this thread.

Jodgey · May 1, 2016

I'll be following this thread like a lost puppy. I just ordered my v1000 and its set to deliver in a couple weeks. Glad to hear you have a good feeling about it

XD341 · May 2, 2016

Good thread, The V1000 was on my short list when I bought the Okuma 560. I'd be interested to hear about one in the wild.

Sei2003 · May 2, 2016

Well it is worth noting our old machine is an '05 Hardinge VMC 1000. So when I compare I am comparing to that. The size, quality, fit and finish difference is apparent. The internals seem to me, to show that Hardinge has learned a lot about the creature comforts of a machine over the past decade. The chip wash is much more adequate and of higher quality, the lighting is outstanding and the design of the coolant tank and chip conveyor is a step up for sure. I was not aware and was disappointed to find out there is not an on board air nozzle to blow off parts. Our '05 machine has a gun right where you would want it. I guess we will run an air line and add a hook somewhere.

The machine itself is so much more quiet that our '05. I think that is largely due to the direct drive and the larger enclosure, but when running at low rpm a couple of times I freaked out thinking the spindle wasn't spinning, but it was. My over all early impression is I think we made the right choice for us today. I too considered the 560 but felt it was a step above where I need to be today. Funny thing is the shop I looked at the V1000 at also had 560's. Guy was honest and shared pluses and minuses for both. Obviously, I found the V1000 the better value for us today. I plan on really opening up the machine next week after some CAM training on new software but I have been really happy with the cuts we have made so far. The extra rpm is really going to come in handy for the aluminum we cut.

The install went smooth but took a little extra time due to the chiller being added, the extra M codes being added and us requesting the conveyor be switched to the right side.

I will keep you posted. More training on the Mits tomorrow. Let me know if you have any questions.

XD341 · May 6, 2016

Sei2003 said:
Well it is worth noting our old machine is an '05 Hardinge VMC 1000. So when I compare I am comparing to that. The size, quality, fit and finish difference is apparent. The internals seem to me, to show that Hardinge has learned a lot about the creature comforts of a machine over the past decade. The chip wash is much more adequate and of higher quality, the lighting is outstanding and the design of the coolant tank and chip conveyor is a step up for sure. I was not aware and was disappointed to find out there is not an on board air nozzle to blow off parts. Our '05 machine has a gun right where you would want it. I guess we will run an air line and add a hook somewhere.

The machine itself is so much more quiet that our '05. I think that is largely due to the direct drive and the larger enclosure, but when running at low rpm a couple of times I freaked out thinking the spindle wasn't spinning, but it was. My over all early impression is I think we made the right choice for us today. I too considered the 560 but felt it was a step above where I need to be today. Funny thing is the shop I looked at the V1000 at also had 560's. Guy was honest and shared pluses and minuses for both. Obviously, I found the V1000 the better value for us today. I plan on really opening up the machine next week after some CAM training on new software but I have been really happy with the cuts we have made so far. The extra rpm is really going to come in handy for the aluminum we cut.

The install went smooth but took a little extra time due to the chiller being added, the extra M codes being added and us requesting the conveyor be switched to the right side.

I will keep you posted. More training on the Mits tomorrow. Let me know if you have any questions.

The control was one of the unknowns for me. I had been all Fanuc, and for milling I was looking for something more capable, Fanuc makes capable mill controls but not on machines in my price range. I love them on bar fed lathes, they just run and run. Dumping 300K lines of code to rough and surface large parts requires a capable control and I just didn't have a comfort level with the Mits. I'd like to hear your impressions on how the control performs and how easy it is to live with as an operator and programmer.

m98custom1212 · May 6, 2016

XD341 said:
The control was one of the unknowns for me. I had been all Fanuc, and for milling I was looking for something more capable, Fanuc makes capable mill controls but not on machines in my price range. I love them on bar fed lathes, they just run and run. Dumping 300K lines of code to rough and surface large parts requires a capable control and I just didn't have a comfort level with the Mits. I'd like to hear your impressions on how the control performs and how easy it is to live with as an operator and programmer.

What mitts controls are pretty solid stable concerning Mazak and DMG use mitts controls just fancy overlay. I call Mitts they have knowledge staff on hand that support new and the vintage stuff. Free of charge new, used they don't care. I will never ever use fanuc again for some reason it norm but it's horrible so many better controls.

Dumped Million line programs in mazaks no problems... only problem was NX which I fixed.

XD341 · May 6, 2016

m98custom1212 said:
What mitts controls are pretty solid stable concerning Mazak and DMG use mitts controls just fancy overlay. I call Mitts they have knowledge staff on hand that support know about new and the vintage stuff. Free of charge new, used they don't care. I will never ever use fanuc again some reason it norm but it's horrible so many better controls.

Dumped Million line programs in mazaks no problems... only problem was NX which I fixed.

I agree Fanuc is not user friendly compared to pretty much every other control. I don't mind them on the lathes because the demands are minor and the interaction of the operator is pretty basic. They are reliable, I have 20 year old O-MD's and 18t's still slogging away without issue....well the key pad overlay is coming apart but that's about it.

Sei2003 · May 7, 2016

XD341 said:
The control was one of the unknowns for me. I had been all Fanuc, and for milling I was looking for something more capable, Fanuc makes capable mill controls but not on machines in my price range. I love them on bar fed lathes, they just run and run. Dumping 300K lines of code to rough and surface large parts requires a capable control and I just didn't have a comfort level with the Mits. I'd like to hear your impressions on how the control performs and how easy it is to live with as an operator and programmer.

The fanuc in my opinion is easier in some respects but we have been running it for over a decade. I like what I see with the Mits and feel that in short order it will be as comfortable as the Fanuc if not more so. This is not to mention we are running our Fanuc programs on the Mits, very nice to be able to do that. We mostly CAM so programming at the machine is not important to use. The Mits does have a conversational option too, along with all high speed functions turned on.

Sei2003 · May 7, 2016

Thought I would share this. Pretty funny to see them side by side.

vettedude · Jun 18, 2016

Sei2003 said:
Thought I would share this. Pretty funny to see them side by side.

View attachment 170810

Have you put any serious hours on this? What type of materials are you running?

I am giving some considerable thought to this machine, but i am not 100% sold.

Dave K · Jun 18, 2016

Sei2003 said:
Thought I would share this. Pretty funny to see them side by side.

View attachment 170810

Your 05 looks identical to my 06. Has hardinge steered away from using grease to lube the ways, and gone to way lube? I hate that grease, it eventually gets into the coolant and creates a slippery slimey hint to the coolant. Also, is chip cleanout any better? I hate cleaning out my hardinge. I don't have the chip conveyor on mine. They assured me cleanout was quick and easy due to the nice little chip baskets. Just roll them out and empty them into a barrel they said. Well, I'm not getting any younger, and pulling out those things while bent over, when you can only get one hand on the handle until it's fully removed, means you're picking up the basket off the floor. I love my fadal on that matter. Pull off the side and shovel it out. Done.

DieselMater86 · Oct 2, 2018

just a little added first hand experience is these machine suck Tool Changer problems big time. Been down for a week with 4 different Techs coming in to fix it. None of the machines are standardized in how they are made. Tons of differences where stuff is located, and even parts being completely different also. But I have gathered from the Techs that this is a major issue going on with the new machines right now over 100 machines down for the same reason. Tool changer losing its mind stops working, and then will start back working, then go crazy and just start changing tools on its on over and over. Wont stop unless you E-Stop the machine. They are just changing out parts, and if that doesn't work pull the new one back off to put the original back on. Should have went a different route when buying a machine. Shop is losing tons of money not being able to run any work at all.

Tom · Oct 3, 2018

DieselMater please check your private email. I have sent you a private message in response to your post above with info to contact Hardinge directly.

Tom
Hardinge Inc

cameraman · Oct 3, 2018

DieselMater86 said:
just a little added first hand experience is these machine suck Tool Changer problems big time. Been down for a week with 4 different Techs coming in to fix it. None of the machines are standardized in how they are made. Tons of differences where stuff is located, and even parts being completely different also. But I have gathered from the Techs that this is a major issue going on with the new machines right now over 100 machines down for the same reason. Tool changer losing its mind stops working, and then will start back working, then go crazy and just start changing tools on its on over and over. Wont stop unless you E-Stop the machine. They are just changing out parts, and if that doesn't work pull the new one back off to put the original back on. Should have went a different route when buying a machine. Shop is losing tons of money not being able to run any work at all.

From V1000 "brochure"...

Large Capacity,
fast performance
automatic tool
changers

The V1000 has a fast tool change
time of 2.5 seconds
(tool-tool). The design of
random inverter drive
bi-directional ATCs and cam
type mechanism features
accurate, rapid and stable tool
change system. 90 degree tool
pocket prevents tool dropping.
To ensure smooth and vibrationfree
tool changing, the tool
changer is strategically located for
minimal transfer of vibration to
the main casting. The ATC also
features random-access,
bi-directional indexing.

Would this be a "bug" in the control software or a failing microswitch etc. tripping the bi-directional random access indexing? / Bad electronics/electrics ?

I guess it's a newer design for faster smoother tool changes ?

@DieselMater86 how long did the machine run without issue before the tool changer started "wigging out".

I am assuming the source of the problem comes from Hardinge Taiwan.

Out of interest do you have the Mits or fanuc control on that machine ?

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Pretty sure plane jane QUASER machines don't do this ?

XD341 · Oct 3, 2018

Tom said:
DieselMater please check your private email. I have sent you a private message in response to your post above with info to contact Hardinge directly.

Tom
Hardinge Inc

OK boys and girls...take a look at the post above. ^^^ That is why you buy a Hardinge machine. I've had two service calls lately from other organizations fixing other brands of machine and I have to tell you, I have been spoiled by Hardinge customer service over the years and didn't know it.

Every machine will have issues, we all know this, but it's how the issues are handled that really matters. I have seen Hardinge go above and beyond to take care of customers over the years. I'm not the biggest fan of some of the decisions they have made over the years but I haven't seen the customer service fall off, there is always someone to call and talk to.

cameraman · Oct 3, 2018

XD341 said:
OK boys and girls...take a look at the post above. ^^^ That is why you buy a Hardinge machine. I've had two service calls lately from other organizations fixing other brands of machine and I have to tell you, I have been spoiled by Hardinge customer service over the years and didn't know it.

Every machine will have issues, we all know this, but it's how the issues are handled that really matters. I have seen Hardinge go above and beyond to take care of customers over the years. I'm not the biggest fan of some of the decisions they have made over the years but I haven't seen the customer service fall off, there is always someone to call and talk to.

Nope...

You are closer to the 'Mother ship" than most.

My takeaway from that was Hardinge is covering it's butt as usual.

Damage limitation + butt covering.

Hardinge are good people but seems at the fartherst flung parts of the 'Empire" stuff seems to crumble at the edges ?

_______________________________________________________________________

IF the V1000's are doing exactly what DieselMater86 reports and I believe in part what he writes that's a MAJOR dent in the confidence that should be "afforded" to Hardinge hardware that ships directly from Taiwan ? (as distinct from their grinding lines and T series and work holding YKWIM ? ). Indeed that would warrant some kind of timely "Intervention".

Makes me immediately think maybe the XT -630 5 ax and V320 5 face machine might have similar tool changer issues as well ? Similarly will the NEW soon to come 2019 Bridgeport V1320 (with twin ball screws in Y axis) also have wackadoodle apoplectic tool changes ?

The V1000 is not a complex machine... (and has been out for a while and Hardinge has sold a lot of those (apparently)). [I suppose it's marginally better than a machine that has a tendency to throw a tool + tool holder at and smashing a machine's window ???]I'm sure the V1000 cuts very well when the tool changer is not on the "Fritz"/wigging out.

Other Brother · Oct 3, 2018

Hardinge didn't offer Fanuc for the V-1000 series, just the M70 Mits. The tool changer is controlled by a stand alone API inverter not the machine software. I know if I had trouble with that system I would be clueless too as a service tech.

Hardinge is getting back into servicing their products again instead of relying on REM, Hartwig, and Gosiger. Personally I think that is a good thing.

XD341 · Oct 3, 2018

cameraman said:
Nope...

You are closer to the 'Mother ship" than most.

My takeaway from that was Hardinge is covering it's butt as usual.

Damage limitation + butt covering.

Hardinge are good people but seems at the fartherst flung parts of the 'Empire" stuff seems to crumble at the edges ?

Well, one of the decisions I'm not a fan of was the move away from direct service in my area to the dealer network..that didn't sit well with anyone around here but...that was just a regional issue. There are plenty of customers out of the state that have experienced good service. I think volatility in the dealer network hasn't been good for service. Hardinge would be well served to have a stable committed dealer/service network. I've spoken with dealers that were trying to sell everything but Hardinge product. That's not a good look, and I think it doesn't reflect on the type service that Hardinge has historically provided. Then again that is their choice.

All I can share are my experiences, I deal with 3 other major dealers/ brands and the service side has been...eye opening to say the least, horrifying may be a better term.

cameraman · Oct 3, 2018

XD341 said:
Well, one of the decisions I'm not a fan of was the move away from direct service in my area to the dealer network..that didn't sit well with anyone around here but...that was just a regional issue. There are plenty of customers out of the state that have experienced good service. I think volatility in the dealer network hasn't been good for service. Hardinge would be well served to have a stable committed dealer/service network. I've spoken with dealers that were trying to sell everything but Hardinge product. That's not a good look, and I think it doesn't reflect on the type service that Hardinge has historically provided. Then again that is their choice.

All I can share are my experiences, I deal with 3 other major dealers/ brands and the service side has been...eye opening to say the least, horrifying may be a better term.

The problem is Hardinge has advertised for what 8 new positions ?

That's not going to service the whole of the USA … Not even close. 1/2 of those positions are not service oriented.

It just doesn't seem tenable to me.

For larger organization that has 30 t0 300 machine tools of various brands that's not so much of an issue as failures of this sort are diluted by a smorgasbord of other machines and in some cases redundant machines to bridge any gaps in eventual failures (that will happen).

DieselMater86 "Beef" or point is that for smaller organizations that have a hand full of machines such failures really have a disproportionate effect on business and the bottom line.

DieselMater86 states : "Should have went a different route when buying a machine. Shop is losing tons of money not being able to run any work at all."

Now more than ever smaller business are having to take greater and greater risks to be competitive on the World stage... An in a lot of cases it is important to have reliable business partners. Folks need to be able to partner with winners not loosers YKWIM ?

So when is it that Hardinge decides to be a winner ?

Muddling through stuff very slowly does not cut it today.

Hardinge/Bridgeport V1000 up and running

Plastic

Diamond

Plastic

Hot Rolled

Plastic

Hot Rolled

Stainless

Hot Rolled

Plastic

Plastic

Stainless

Diamond

Aluminum

Cast Iron

Diamond

Hot Rolled

Diamond

Hot Rolled

Hot Rolled

Diamond

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