Cincinnati Toolmaster questions about collets and lubrication

Taltruda · Jul 26, 2018

I have recently acquired a Cincinnati Toolmaster mill, I believe it to be a 1B from pictures online. It didn’t come with any proper collets, instead had a 5C collet with the threads cut off and a crudely made bushing. What is the proper direction I should go about tooling? Is there a way to make these 5C collets work or does anybody make an adapter for ER40 collets?

A manual that I found online has way oil as P-55. What does this crossover to now? I believe it’s the heavier Vactra 4 ISO 220, is that right? Also is there gearbox oil in the head that I should change?

Thank you in advance for your help!

-Tom in Vegas

Illinoyance · Jul 26, 2018

If it uses the same collets as the old Contour Master mills the taper is identical to the 40 milling machine taper. On my Contour master I used a 40 taper endmill holder, turned down the flange part way and made a special nut to retain the holder. That could also be done with a 40 taper ER collet chuck.

jeffers · Jul 26, 2018

Taltruda said:
I have recently acquired a Cincinnati Toolmaster mill, I believe it to be a 1B from pictures online. It didn’t come with any proper collets, instead had a 5C collet with the threads cut off and a crudely made bushing. What is the proper direction I should go about tooling? Is there a way to make these 5C collets work or does anybody make an adapter for ER40 collets?

A manual that I found online has way oil as P-55. What does this crossover to now? I believe it’s the heavier Vactra 4 ISO 220, is that right? Also is there gearbox oil in the head that I should change?

Thank you in advance for your help!

-Tom in Vegas

Send me a pm and I will send you a digital operator and maintenance manual, they use a 3CH collet which are available on eBay and new from Hardinge

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Taltruda · Jul 26, 2018

I think Jeffers is right with the 3CH collets. I heard other Cincinnati mills do take the 40 taper, but I don’t think this one does. Thank you for the reply though!

calvin b · Jul 27, 2018

Tom Sir,
p-55 = mobil dte medium ISO 46 Just for future reference Mobil industrial tech supports # is 1-800-662-4525. They will be more than happy to cross reference any obsolete oil/lubricatnt you may come across.
Hope this helps
Stay safe
Calvin B

kd1yt · Jul 28, 2018

Assuming you do indeed have a 1B the collets are often called "monoset" collets; Hardinge does make them but remain seated when you look at prices, they are very expensive. One solution, and what I did, was to get one monoset collet (1") that let me put a straight shank ER40 collet chuck in the Toolmaster. The 'tolerance stacking' of multiple interfaces is usually something best avoided, but I got a Maritool ER40 chuck, which is at least one of the much better made ER chucks; I just couldn't swing or justify a full set of the Monotool collets at north of $150 each.

mister honey · Jul 28, 2018

Search ebay for "Cincinnati Monoset" and you'll find many examples.

Mike

Taltruda · Jul 28, 2018

Thanks Calvin, I’ll call them on Monday. I thought I read somewhere that p-55 has a viscosity of 200-220, which is close to Vactra 4 type way oil.. BP type machines use a lighter vactra 2. I’m in Vegas, so the heat will thin it some..

thermite · Jul 28, 2018

kd1yt said:
Assuming you do indeed have a 1B the collets are often called "monoset" collets; Hardinge does make them but remain seated when you look at prices, they are very expensive. One solution, and what I did, was to get one monoset collet (1") that let me put a straight shank ER40 collet chuck in the Toolmaster. The 'tolerance stacking' of multiple interfaces is usually something best avoided, but I got a Maritool ER40 chuck, which is at least one of the much better made ER chucks; I just couldn't swing or justify a full set of the Monotool collets at north of $150 each.

+1 Could also consider a MariTool TG if you can use the "tail". Work of art, I'd class 'em.

TG collets are inherently half the collapse range of ER, which makes no never mind if using but a few sizes rather than a "set" and gives better grip for just about exactly the same amount of cleaning prep and torque-wrenching nuisance as ER.

calvin b · Jul 29, 2018

Tom Sir,
Well "200-220" would be close to vactra #4 if the p-55 spec was using the ISO scale instead of the older saybolt universal seconds @ 100° F scale... Try this link for an explanation.. Comparative Viscosity Chart Anyhow Give the nice people at mobil industrial a call and they will hook you up with what you need.. Personally I'd go with vactra# 2 for your way oil needs but that's just me..
Oh and congrats on getting the cincy.. great machine from a great company.
Hope this helps
Stay safe
Calvin B
PS you mentioned oil in the head.. well for what it's worth when I gets me mitts on an new-to-me machine I change every fluid I can so I know what's in said machine..

tnmgcarbide · Jul 30, 2018

just use vactra 2 or equivalent on the ways. i use chevron vistac , it's 1/2 the cost
and is sticky like the old vactra . if you put that vactra-4 in the table, you're
sure to have sore arms crankin' the thing.

the quill is going to leak all over the place anyway . doesn't matter what you put in there.

the collets are 3a, and i used to make a tg-100 adaptor and nut for the 1-b.
i'll have to look and see but i may have one somewhere.

let me know if you need one.

Taltruda · Jul 31, 2018

Thank you, I'll return the #4 and get the #2 equivalent. It was $30+ a gallon, but I bought the 5 gallon pail for $75. Let me know if you have a tg-100 adapter, that would be awesome!
-Tom

JCash · Jul 5, 2023

jeffers said:
Send me a pm and I will send you a digital operator and maintenance manual, they use a 3CH collet which are available on eBay and new from Hardinge

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Does anyone know what torque is used for these collets? I've looked around and can't seem to find it

westcoastr · Sep 7, 2023

JCash said:
Does anyone know what torque is used for these collets? I've looked around and can't seem to find it

I haven't seen anything called out in the manuals but given the collet nut is tightened with two hand wrenches I don't think there is a specific numeric torque. So "firm" but not 800 pound gorrilla tight...

Elwood1968 · Sep 7, 2023

The factory manual I have (M-1941-1) states simply to tighten the collet nut on the 1A and 1B models. No torque spec given.

These collets, especially the larger capacities, don't have a lot of meat to them, so I check the diameter of any new cutting tool used. If it's too much smaller than the collet size, it could break the collet when clamped down hard.

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Cincinnati Toolmaster questions about collets and lubrication

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