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Vertical Roller For up to 12" Flat

BRHMFG

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 9, 2014
Location
South Dakota
Has anyone built a hydraulic roller to roll flat metal? Need to bend up to 1/2" x 12" flat. Seldom a tighter radius than 10'. However the closer the rollers the less waste from the flat end. Used one at a previous shop that was custom built. Looking for ideas. The one i am using is shop built many decades ago and is very tired and worn. I think i can use the hydraulic drive and sprockets, etc but need to rebuild a frame and probably new rollers as the old ones are only 9" tall.
Main question would be what to use for rollers and bearings.
Or are there machines for sale that do this? Essentially a narrow plate roller but needs to be vertical as we are rolling 20' sticks.
Thanks
 
Has anyone built a hydraulic roller to roll flat metal? Need to bend up to 1/2" x 12" flat. Seldom a tighter radius than 10'. However the closer the rollers the less waste from the flat end. Used one at a previous shop that was custom built. Looking for ideas. The one i am using is shop built many decades ago and is very tired and worn. I think i can use the hydraulic drive and sprockets, etc but need to rebuild a frame and probably new rollers as the old ones are only 9" tall.
Main question would be what to use for rollers and bearings.
Or are there machines for sale that do this? Essentially a narrow plate roller but needs to be vertical as we are rolling 20' sticks.
Thanks

"sheet metal" ones were once common as fly-poop, school shops, tinsmiths, HVAC and food-service folks. Heaviest ones might be for major turbine power water conduit and HY80 / HY 100 submarine pressure hulls. So yeah, it is "an industry". Or was at one time. More research probably finds what you need. Just not cheap.

The one you have has lasted a fair number of years, might not be a BAD idea to just "clone it", not go over one size UP on any part of it. If it ain't broke, just wore-out... etc.
 
Has anyone built a hydraulic roller to roll flat metal? Need to bend up to 1/2" x 12" flat. Seldom a tighter radius than 10'. However the closer the rollers the less waste from the flat end. Used one at a previous shop that was custom built. Looking for ideas. The one i am using is shop built many decades ago and is very tired and worn. I think i can use the hydraulic drive and sprockets, etc but need to rebuild a frame and probably new rollers as the old ones are only 9" tall.
Main question would be what to use for rollers and bearings.
Or are there machines for sale that do this? Essentially a narrow plate roller but needs to be vertical as we are rolling 20' sticks.
Thanks

Yes.

Roundo Section Bending
they make a bunch of them.
Look like a normal ring roller layed down on it's side.
 
Virtually every set of angle rolls ever made, as Doug points out, will lay down on its back to roll vertically. And they are all available with roll sets that will roll flat bar.
Angle rolls only have bearings on one side, so they are built sturdier than if you built one with bearings on both sides. But you still would want similar sturdiness. There are rolls out there that will roll 1/2" x 12"- and they are beasts. Usually they will have thick plate ends, with bearings at each side of the plate- so 4 bearings per shaft. (2 at each end) For 1/2" plate, you want pretty large diameter shafts, The Roundo's that Doug linked to use 9" to 12" diameter rolls for 3/4" up to 1 1/2" flat bar, and 8 to 12 hp.
Roundo's are built very well- a used roundo would probably do this, even an R3. But they arent cheap- used prices are often in the 20k to 30k range. Several used R5s for sale right now in Europe, for about $50,000. They are worth it, but probably more than you want to spend, given that you dont need to roll pipe, angle, tubing and channel.
 
Virtually every set of angle rolls ever made, as Doug points out, will lay down on its back to roll vertically. And they are all available with roll sets that will roll flat bar.
Angle rolls only have bearings on one side, so they are built sturdier than if you built one with bearings on both sides. But you still would want similar sturdiness. There are rolls out there that will roll 1/2" x 12"- and they are beasts. Usually they will have thick plate ends, with bearings at each side of the plate- so 4 bearings per shaft. (2 at each end) For 1/2" plate, you want pretty large diameter shafts, The Roundo's that Doug linked to use 9" to 12" diameter rolls for 3/4" up to 1 1/2" flat bar, and 8 to 12 hp.
Roundo's are built very well- a used roundo would probably do this, even an R3. But they arent cheap- used prices are often in the 20k to 30k range. Several used R5s for sale right now in Europe, for about $50,000. They are worth it, but probably more than you want to spend, given that you dont need to roll pipe, angle, tubing and channel.

Ya I guess I'm familiar with the small version of those type, "eagle benders" but was hoping to find something a little more economical. Looks like rebuilding the one we have is probably the only option at this point. I think we will definitely want to support the rollers on both ends. A lot easier to hold rigid. Are larger diameter rolls simply for rigidity? Is simply taking a large shaft and turning the ends down for the bearings the most economical way to make rollers? Bearing recommendations?
Here is link to custom built roller built similar to what I need. Gallery
 
You want the shafts tough, strong for bending
resistance. Not glass hard.

You want the rollers very hard for wear against the hot rolled material.

Large dia. rollers make for easier bending, but it leaves a longer flat at the ends.
 
Honestly i prefer just mild steel rollers, yeah in time they get chewed up but they naturally grip better than a hardened and ground roller and a reface is but a couple of minutes in the lathe. Simple turned down ends are the easiest way to go. I like large needle races with the inner bearing ring for these kinda applications.

I think you also need to settle on how much 1/2" x 12 your going to be doing, ie the difference between making a set of rolls that do that all the time to a set of rolls that do that once in a while is significant. Also are you happy to creep up and multiple passes, or do you ideally want set it and run from straight to near correct curve in one pass? One approach needs a lot beafier machine than the other. Same goes for only holding the rollers on one side. It makes for a far more massive machine build to do that.

Side ways on has the advantage of easier support with some simple Castor stands on a smooth concrete floor, but the space it can then need is vast Vertical is a lot less floor space but can be far more effort and also the sag can be hard to fight on really larger diameters and longer floppy stuff.
 
Seeing how it's a hydraulic drive, make pump & valves part of the control panel, use standard quick couplers to the machine.

Make the whole affair in a large "Cage" of heavy box tube (maybe 6" sq x 1/4" wall)

Put crane hooks and fork pockets for both orientations.
Roll it vertical with the crane, need more room ?
Move it to where you have room with a forklift.
 
Slip roll or Pinch Roll

What you are looking for is a version of a slip roll or pinch roll or initial pinch roll or plate roll. The difference between them are a 3 roll system or a 4 roll system and number of driven rolls . Bertsch, Webb, Lown, Tauring, Lemas and Roundo make the big ones and other companies like Bailleigh Industrial, Lemas and Montgomery make mid & smaller ones. Niagara used to do these as well.

You can look at their specifications on diameter and hardness of the rolls to decide what you need.
 
Honestly i prefer just mild steel rollers, yeah in time they get chewed up but they naturally grip better than a hardened and ground roller and a reface is but a couple of minutes in the lathe. Simple turned down ends are the easiest way to go. I like large needle races with the inner bearing ring for these kinda applications.

I think you also need to settle on how much 1/2" x 12 your going to be doing, ie the difference between making a set of rolls that do that all the time to a set of rolls that do that once in a while is significant. Also are you happy to creep up and multiple passes, or do you ideally want set it and run from straight to near correct curve in one pass? One approach needs a lot beafier machine than the other. Same goes for only holding the rollers on one side. It makes for a far more massive machine build to do that.

Side ways on has the advantage of easier support with some simple Castor stands on a smooth concrete floor, but the space it can then need is vast Vertical is a lot less floor space but can be far more effort and also the sag can be hard to fight on really larger diameters and longer floppy stuff.

Appreciate the input. Yes definitely one pass and 20' flat works much better in a vertical roller. Our machine has the tonnage to do it easily but we are lacking the accuracy and consistency. Wants to twist because the rollers are actually splayed out as currently it's built as an "open top" all mounted on single 3/4" plate. You can see it flex and it's been reinforced multiple times over the years so time to start over! I believe I can reuse the motors, cylinder, pump etc in a new frame. Just noticed today it is using a separate hydraulic motor for the two drive rollers, I'd like to make all 3 rollers powered.
 
Appreciate the input. Yes definitely one pass and 20' flat works much better in a vertical roller. Our machine has the tonnage to do it easily but we are lacking the accuracy and consistency. Wants to twist because the rollers are actually splayed out as currently it's built as an "open top" all mounted on single 3/4" plate. You can see it flex and it's been reinforced multiple times over the years so time to start over! I believe I can reuse the motors, cylinder, pump etc in a new frame. Just noticed today it is using a separate hydraulic motor for the two drive rollers, I'd like to make all 3 rollers powered.

we have very different needs- I do a different thing pretty much every week, so I need the most flexible adapatable machine possible, while you want a production machine to do one thing. That said, your current machine sounds very wimpy.
I bought, new, an Eagle CP 40 some 20 years ago, and I love it. Its able to roll flat, the hard way and the easy way, pipe, tube, angle, and more.
Its much smaller capacity than what you want- It tops out at about 4" x 1/2" of stainless flat bar.
And it has a base plate double the thickness of your 3/4" plate.

You need to beef that big boy up. I would want 1 1/4" plate if you have plates and bearings at both ends.
If its just one end, open ended like an angle roll, I would want 2". With Bearings in milled in pockets on both sides of that 2" plate, and main shaft thru the bearings of at least 2" diameter, turned down from maybe 8" diameter rolls. Hydraulic motors are great- because you want slow- mine is around 10 rpm, and thats pretty good. The best rolls, like the Swedish built roundos, have 3 hydraulic motors, one per roll, and then they have hydraulic pinch, as well. Thats the ultimate. My cheaper machine has a chain and sprocket connecting the two driven rolls, that would work, but 3 motors, or at least 2, is better.
 








 
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