A bit OT, but I went to an "Old military rifle" shoot today

CalG · Sep 29, 2018

A small gathering of 12 folks, but there must have been 40 arms in the racks.

Some over 100 years old. 1900 the oldest stamped date.

Metal work has been well refined for quite some number of years.

The fit and finish on nearly all the rifles presented were inspiring!

Gazz · Sep 30, 2018

Where are the pictures?

billzweig · Sep 30, 2018

I have quite a number of old military rifles. Among my favourites - for shooting and as far as quality - are the 1896 Swedish Mauser and the 1891 Argentine Mauser. The Canadian 1905 Ross is also a nicely made and accurate rifle.

TDegenhart · Sep 30, 2018

Are the modern powders the same as used in these older weapons or do you need to have special powders/cartridges?

Tom

CalG · Sep 30, 2018

TDegenhart said:
Are the modern powders the same as used in these older weapons or do you need to have special powders/cartridges?

Tom

The powder makers have a modern powder and a suggested load for just about every cartridge that has ever been popular.

Everyone was shooting hand loads and cast boolits. Some loads were pretty soft. Adds to the interest. Less kick isn't bad either. It doesn't take a lot to punch a hole in paper board. ;-)

akajun · Oct 1, 2018

we host a Pearl Harbor Memorial match every December at our range. Its an 80 shot XTC Highpower match and to be in contention to win you must shoot a rifle in Use by the US during WW2, but any rifle of that period can shoot. Mostly a lot of Garands, but a few 03's and 03a3's, couple of swiss K31's and Swede Mausers but the running joke with those is if you bring one of those to the match you can only approach the firing line and dry fire, since they were neutral countries.
That and the Games matches at Perry are my favorite matches to shoot.

SteelonSteel · Oct 1, 2018

TDegenhart said:
Are the modern powders the same as used in these older weapons or do you need to have special powders/cartridges?

Tom

There are older formulas still in use and plenty of modern powders of similar burn rates.

The practice of selecting powder is choosing a good and appropriate powder burn rate for the job at hand.

Generally there are fast rifle powders normally used in small cases in small charge weights. Medium burn rate powders used from small to mid to rather large cases. I really like 4895 it is one of these and is a golden oldie. Slower powders can be used from mid size cases to large magnum cases. Imr4350 is one. Get bigger like .50 bmg and you go to a different burn rate not normally used elsewhere.

Change to a reallly light bullet for case or really heavy bullet and you likely can or should change to a different burn rate.

ETA it stinks when they stop making an old powder formula. I hear that environmental regs and the waste by products are pushing older powders out for newer formulas. More so in Europe.

They dropped the SR series of powders I liked for cast bullets in antique guns. Forces the user to redo all the load work up.

kenton · Oct 2, 2018

CalG said:
A small gathering of 12 folks, but there must have been 40 arms in the racks.

Some over 100 years old. 1900 the oldest stamped date.

Metal work has been well refined for quite some number of years.

The fit and finish on nearly all the rifles presented were inspiring!

I guess my 1942 Soviet Mosin Nagant wouldn't have fit in well.

jmm03 · Oct 2, 2018

We have similar matches out here in the peoples republik, 03's and swedes predominate but you will see model 91 mosin's and british enfields on occasion. The finnish mosins can be surprisingly accurate. The oldest swede I have dates to 1904, the metalwork still looks new.

CalG · Oct 2, 2018

kenton said:
I guess my 1942 Soviet Mosin Nagant wouldn't have fit in well.

I brought a '57 SKS. Five digit serial number.
I felt out of place as far as equipment goes (no one cares what you bring , just come shoot!)

I was up as first auto loader after several nice bolt guns. I shot my round "rapidly", and then put the "young 'un". in the rack until we all left. It didn't look too out of place next to all the carbines, ;-)

partsproduction · Oct 7, 2018

I also have a Swede, a Karl Gustav 1896. It's in very good condition and I've yet to shoot it. I bought 100 once fired empties and primers, powder and bullets, plus a die set.
It's amazing how nicely done the fit and finish is, and with old flat belt machinery. The story goes that the first 1896's were made by Mauser, but the Swedes insisted on them using Swedish steel. I wonder how much of that was patriotic pride and how much was metallurgical knowledge.

jmm03 · Oct 7, 2018

Weren't the swedes known for having good steel? Not just from a firearms stand point but in general. Side note to partsproduction, swedes like slower powders like H4831, and 142 grain projectiles, but powder like XMR4064 works well also. Jim

partsproduction · Oct 7, 2018

Weren't the swedes known for having good steel?

That's what I've read, but I was thinking it may also play into the "Not made here" syndrome, ie. patriotism.

Whats so special about Swedish steel? | Badger & Blade

billzweig · Oct 7, 2018

partsproduction said:
I also have a Swede, a Karl Gustav 1896. It's in very good condition and I've yet to shoot it. I bought 100 once fired empties and primers, powder and bullets, plus a die set.
It's amazing how nicely done the fit and finish is, and with old flat belt machinery. The story goes that the first 1896's were made by Mauser, but the Swedes insisted on them using Swedish steel. I wonder how much of that was patriotic pride and how much was metallurgical knowledge.

Both the Karl Gustav and the Husqvarna are nice, quality rifles. The 6.5x55 is a popular calibre in Europe and many factory loads are available. I like the Norma Nosler 140 Grain, works well in the military rifles. I have four, including two I've customized.

partsproduction · Oct 8, 2018

swedes like slower powders like H4831, and 142 grain projectiles, but powder like XMR4064 works well also. Jim

I confess I've never loaded a single rifle round, all pistol, 80% 45ACP.

I asked a gun store guy known for his long range shooting what to use with the Swede and he sold me 4350 and H4831SC, also Berger 140 grn Elite Hunter.

I have four, including two I've customized.

What scope is that? Is the 6.5X55 good for longer ranges?

billzweig · Oct 8, 2018

partsproduction said:
What scope is that? Is the 6.5X55 good for longer ranges?

4-16X50, mostly used at 8-10X. I use this setup for 300 meters (the limit of a range here).

jmm03 · Oct 8, 2018

nice work on that swede Bill, is that stock maple? (I am partial to military stocked swede's but I certainly appreciate beautiful work...) The 6.5 x 55 works very well at longer ranges. I have a Remington model 700 that I shoot at 600 yards with great effect,(well,sometimes with great effect...)jim

CalG · Oct 8, 2018

You know you can't do that with iron sights on "old military" rifles.

So why?

I can poke pencil hole in a sheet of paper and wow the crowd as much as any one can.

Not the POINT!

My pencil is sharper than yours!

partsproduction · Oct 8, 2018

A friend who likes long range shooting explained to me tonight that my 140 grain boat tail bullets will probably not stabilize because the military rifles typically had a slower twist than today's rifles. So back to the store for a shorter bullet, but it looks like the boat tail has to go. Something about Ballistic Coefficient, which sounds to me like sectional area.
He shoots a 6.5 Creedmore and is embarrassed to tell me the size of his groups, as he despises pride.

GGaskill · Oct 9, 2018

Before you give up on your bullets, I would measure the twist of your barrel. The Swedes knew what they were doing and I would be highly surprised if the twist is inadequate for any commonly made bullet. My Lyman 47th shows the twist of their test rifles, a Swedish Military Carbine and a Husqvarna Bolt Action, as 1 in 7.5". Berger data for 140 gr bullets in 6.5 Creedmoor says 1 in 8" or faster; same thing for 6.5 x 55 Swedish.

A bit OT, but I went to an "Old military rifle" shoot today

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