HAAS DM/DT MILLS and Brother Speedio Power Requirements

BrickTactical · Aug 9, 2018

Looking for owners of preferably a Haas DM2 machine.

Or a Haas DM1 / DT Machine.

Current issue is there seems to be quite the confusion as to what a Haas DM2 machine requires for power.

On the Haas website is reads (see attached):

ELECTRICAL SPECIFICATION S.A.E METRIC
Spindle Speed 12000 rpm 12000 rpm
Drive System Inline Direct-Drive Inline Direct-Drive
Spindle Power 15.0 hp 11.2 kW
Input AC Voltage (3 Phase) - Low 220 VAC 220 VAC
Full Load Amps (3 Phase) - Low 25 A 25 A
Input AC Voltage (3 Phase) - High 440 VAC 440 VAC
Full Load Amps (3 Phase) - High 13 A 13 A

This leads me to believe the machine only needs 25 Amps to run.

Which would make sense because the Brother Speedio S700X1 needs only 30 Amps and both machines have around a 12-15hp spindle.

So then I go to ask Haas and they come back to me and say that:

"They are 70 AMPS and my service manager is comfortable running them at 50 AMPS. We have done full speed demos cutting at our office at 50 Amps."

Then to add to the craziness. I've talked to a DM1 owner (only a smaller table compared to the DM2) and he says he only uses 30 amps if that and not to worry about what Haas says.

Any Haas owners out there that have these specific machines? If I cant power x2 Haas machines I know I can power x2 Brothers.

Thanks everyone!

BrickTactical · Aug 9, 2018

To add to that.

I have a 200 amp panel for my house with a dedicated 100 amp breaker that I run my phase converter off of that gives me 64 Amps. I could upgrade and get a large phase converter that would give me 96 amps if needed.

DDoug · Aug 9, 2018

BrickTactical said:
Any Haas owners out there that have these specific machines? If I cant power x2 Haas machines I know I can power x2 Brothers.

Thanks everyone!

Who really want's your business ?

Have both salespeople commit in writing yes/no that the machine
you want, can be run successfully with your stated power supply.

Finegrain · Aug 9, 2018

The 16k RPM Speedio is rated for 4.9 kW continuous, 7.4 kW for 10 minutes, so 6.5 HP continuous and 10 HP for 10 min.

I guess some folks would look at "momentary draw" and make some statements around that (like my 4 HP 110V shopac :nutter:

). In that case, the 16k RPM Speedio has a 20.5 HP spindle. Woo hoo :skep:

.

I can tell you that I have 1000 hours on my S700X1 running off of a 30A breaker, and it has never tripped the breaker.

Regards.

Mike

G00 Proto · Aug 9, 2018

I couldn't get Haas or their recommended phase convertor company to commit to being able to run a DM2 or DT2 off of my 100 amp panel in my shop.

Finegrain · Aug 9, 2018

27k RPM spindle is 6.3 kW continuous & 8.9 kW for 10 minutes, so 8.4 HP continuous and 12 HP for 10 minutes. Probably would need to look at the curves for this spindle though as you are likely to be running bigger cutters at lower RPM's, where you may not have that much power available.

Regards.

Mike

riabma77 · Aug 9, 2018

It's funny because exactly one year ago, the power requirements were 195-240V (3-phase) and 80A (full load).

bryan_machine · Aug 9, 2018

Get somebody to find one of the machines, and find the power plate (which I think it legally has to have) which will say something like 60amps at 400v 3 phase. (Say.) Then be warned that that plate is supposed to be machine specific and options may change what it says from one machine to the next.

People not being willing to assure something will work is more likely "we don't warrant anything, we don't warrant gravity is adequate to hold our device to the floor".

Now there are some other gotchas - check your local code - one is that the full load is not supposed to be more than 80% of the rated circuit - to allow for glitches, special startup loads, and so forth. The details of this are fuzzy to me, check directly with local experts.

D.D.Machine · Aug 9, 2018

I run a vf4ss every day off a 60 amp breaker feeding a RPC and it works just fine ,,, Haas runs fine on dirty power, its not like fanuc that is picky as hell. I have read some posts about Brothers being picky about there power also.

FYI Haas VF2 and VF4 only have a 7 1/2 HP spindle motor ,, Haas calls it a 30HP ..

Finegrain · Aug 9, 2018

D.D.Machine said:
I have read some posts about Brothers being picky about there power also.

My Speedio didn't like the 240V 3-phase coming out of my Phase Perfect and I had to buck it down. I think the spec is 200-230V +/-10%. While the +10% would seem to allow 240V, my experience before installing the buck transformer was that when running at 16k RPM, once in awhile the machine would fault with an overvoltage error.

Regards.

Mike

riabma77 · Aug 9, 2018

Finegrain said:
My Speedio didn't like the 240V 3-phase coming out of my Phase Perfect and I had to buck it down. I think the spec is 200-230V +/-10%. While the +10% would seem to allow 240V, my experience before installing the buck transformer was that when running at 16k RPM, once in awhile the machine would fault with an overvoltage error.

Regards.

Mike

Same here. I have 240-245V, and I put a bucking transformer to 225V before the Phase Perfect. So far it's working perfectly.

riabma77 · Aug 9, 2018

D.D.Machine said:
Haas runs fine on dirty power

Yeah, in a 2 year period I replaced the spindle amplifier and Y-axis amplifier because dirty power. Or crappy quality electronic components...

BROTHERFRANK · Aug 9, 2018

The Brother 16k RPM Speedios are rated 9.5 KVA , 200-230V 3 phase. 9.5 KVA at 220V works out to 24.9 Amps. I had an ammeter on one once and it was running about 15 amps average as I recall with coolant pump and lights etc. going.

riabma77 · Aug 10, 2018

BROTHERFRANK said:
The Brother 16k RPM Speedios are rated 9.5 KVA , 200-230V 3 phase. 9.5 KVA at 220V works out to 24.9 Amps. I had an ammeter on one once and it was running about 15 amps average as I recall with coolant pump and lights etc. going.

The only thing I don't like about my Speedio is the tremendous amount of air used. The machine doesn't use too much electricity, but my compressor cycles way much more. My first electric bill will tell!

BROTHERFRANK · Aug 10, 2018

Speedio S700 16K rpm is rated 1.6 CFM. Check that you don't have any leaks. The spindle purge runs continuously. You may be able to reduce the flow (regulator on pneumatic panel)some to help. Also I have seen people put a solenoid valve on that line so that it only purges the spindle when running parts, shuts off automatically when the machine is sitting.

riabma77 · Aug 10, 2018

Yeah, maybe I have a leak. For sure it's using much more than 1.6 cfm...

I have 2 separate lines (one for the machine, and another one for the air gun), with barb fittings and rubber hose.

Do you think push-to-connect fittings and nylon tubing, will be better for leaks?

Matt@RFR · Aug 10, 2018

BROTHERFRANK said:
Speedio S700 16K rpm is rated 1.6 CFM. Check that you don't have any leaks. The spindle purge runs continuously. You may be able to reduce the flow (regulator on pneumatic panel)some to help. Also I have seen people put a solenoid valve on that line so that it only purges the spindle when running parts, shuts off automatically when the machine is sitting.

I'm going to look in to putting a solenoid in that line as well. Can you tell us exactly which line it is on an R650?

Mine, just sitting there powered off but with air supplied will use 10psi every 12 minutes I believe (haven't actually times it), and we have 280 gallons of air storage plus the lines. No idea how to do that math, but I wonder if it's anywhere close to 1.6 CFM?

BROTHERFRANK · Aug 10, 2018

R650 is rated 1.8 CFM. probably due to the addition of the pallet clamp system. 4th or 5th rotaries can increase air consumption too because they frequently have air purge systems. Here is a pic of the spindle purge regulator and line:

Finegrain · Aug 10, 2018

BROTHERFRANK said:
Speedio S700 16K rpm is rated 1.6 CFM. Check that you don't have any leaks. The spindle purge runs continuously. You may be able to reduce the flow (regulator on pneumatic panel)some to help. Also I have seen people put a solenoid valve on that line so that it only purges the spindle when running parts, shuts off automatically when the machine is sitting.

Yes, the problem is that the spindle purge is open 24/7 regardless of machine state. Even when depowered the spindle purge is blowing. That seems pretty wasteful to me.

I would be keen to get details on such a solenoid. If you or any other Speedio owners have that installed, I would very much like to get details.

Regards.

Mike

BROTHERFRANK · Aug 10, 2018

Something like this:

McMaster-Carr

It needs a 24V DC coil. You use one of the Mappable Outputs on the IO board. Map an output to Green (Green Light only comes on when cycle is running). Connect solenoid to the output and put in line of spindle air purge. Voila!

HAAS DM/DT MILLS and Brother Speedio Power Requirements

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