New HAAS EC400

micmeadow · Nov 15, 2018

Hello everyone,
I've been reading a bunch of bad reviews about the old Haas ec400. Problem with the control, tool changer, coolant ect ect.

The new model has been completely redesigned, thermally and mechanically and we are actually looking for an horizontal machine. Would you give it a shot?

Just so you know, I have a great offer for a 2010 Kitamura HX400G with Fanuc 18i-TM control. The machine is in great shape but I don't like Fanuc at all. So I am not 100% convinced.

Waiting for your thoughts about this thread! Thanks to anyone who's gonna help!
M.

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SIM · Nov 15, 2018

I am a Haas fan...although mostly because of my HFO and the older machines.

Side tracked already... I am a fan, I have a few older SL lathes a couple of the new ST lathes - VF-1's several from 91 to a 2013 VF-2 and new Mini.
Stripped down to basics with 4th on the mills is about as far as I see myself going with Haas.

Good bang for the buck in that area, with great Controls that are friendly...but hanging more crap off a lackluster designed machine is stacking up tolerances against you before you start.

I know the EC is a somewhat different animal...but I also know how Haas builds.
I also know they do not always learn from their mistakes.
Yes, they may rectify the old problems with a new redesign...but they do not seem to leave what worked.
Instead they redesign what worked and find new ways to screw that up till the new design comes out.

I'd push to see one of the machines cut your parts aggressively before pulling that trigger.

Sorry Haas...

micmeadow · Nov 15, 2018

SIM said:
I am a Haas fan...although mostly because of my HFO and the older machines.

Side tracked already... I am a fan, I have a few older SL lathes a couple of the new ST lathes - VF-1's several from 91 to a 2013 VF-2 and new Mini.
Stripped down to basics with 4th on the mills is about as far as I see myself going with Haas.

Good bang for the buck in that area, with great Controls that are friendly...but hanging more crap off a lackluster designed machine is stacking up tolerances against you before you start.

I know the EC is a somewhat different animal...but I also know how Haas builds.
I also know they do not always learn from their mistakes.
Yes, they may rectify the old problems with a new redesign...but they do not seem to leave what worked.
Instead they redesign what worked and find new ways to screw that up till the new design comes out.

I'd push to see one of the machines cut your parts aggressively before pulling that trigger.

Sorry Haas...

We have a VF3-SS in our factory and to be honest, that machine works great. I'm totally satisfied for the job we do and it handles very strict tolerances. That's why I was thinking to keep on going with Haas. Also, Haas control is wonderful and all the operators in my factory find themselves comfortable working there.

I know that 4th axis is something very particular in a Mill in fact I was looking for some Kitamura or any other mill equipped with box ways.

Anyway, I'll wait and push to have a try cutting my pieces before buying.
Thanks a lot!
M.

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YdnaD · Nov 17, 2018

The issue I saw with our old EC400 was chip removal and coolant containment, which is the same issue I have with my current VF mills. The EC had a lot of trouble with chips piling up all over the inside of the machine which led to pallet changing issues and just general "babysitting" that nobody was intending to do with it. It wasn't a bad machine, and it's still in use today, but after I left that facility they went nuts installing all kinds of secondary washdown pumps and other mods all over the place just to address those problems.

Mechanically I never saw big problems with the parts we were making with it, at least not outside of the realm of horizontal machine problems like clearance and using longer tools. The axis hardware wasn't bad, but the sheet metal led to leaking. We had more issues with the lube system but that's common to any Haas machine using the red grease (which has now been mitigated in the purple grease that pumps better). I noticed the new EC400 has a more sturdy X-axis system that mimics that of a more expensive machine.

I fly the Haas flag these days (at least with regards to most things) so I wouldn't mind one if we had the need for an HMC. I have a lot of Haas mills, but they're all vertical. The biggest gripe I have with anything new from Haas isn't the hardware, but rather locked down NGC parameters, which previously was always a huge selling point for us, now is something they ripped away.

micmeadow · Nov 18, 2018

YdnaD said:
The issue I saw with our old EC400 was chip removal and coolant containment, which is the same issue I have with my current VF mills. The EC had a lot of trouble with chips piling up all over the inside of the machine which led to pallet changing issues and just general "babysitting" that nobody was intending to do with it. It wasn't a bad machine, and it's still in use today, but after I left that facility they went nuts installing all kinds of secondary washdown pumps and other mods all over the place just to address those problems.

Mechanically I never saw big problems with the parts we were making with it, at least not outside of the realm of horizontal machine problems like clearance and using longer tools. The axis hardware wasn't bad, but the sheet metal led to leaking. We had more issues with the lube system but that's common to any Haas machine using the red grease (which has now been mitigated in the purple grease that pumps better). I noticed the new EC400 has a more sturdy X-axis system that mimics that of a more expensive machine.

I fly the Haas flag these days (at least with regards to most things) so I wouldn't mind one if we had the need for an HMC. I have a lot of Haas mills, but they're all vertical. The biggest gripe I have with anything new from Haas isn't the hardware, but rather locked down NGC parameters, which previously was always a huge selling point for us, now is something they ripped away.

The only thing I'm scared of is the reliability of the machine. The EC400 is going to be put in a production line, it can not waste time. I don't need a super rigid machine, we don't work with heavy cut, but I need a machine that will not stop the line.

We are planning to buy a new horizontal machine in the next year. I hope in the meantime I will find new opinion/shared experience about this new updated machine!

Thanks for your reply!
M.

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D.D.Machine · Nov 18, 2018

think of it this way ,, flip your vf3ss on its back and you have a EC400 … the horizontals before the EC line had pallet problems but from the owners I have talked to they were fixed when they went to the EC machines … 95% of the moving hardware and electronics are just VF parts..

micmeadow · Nov 19, 2018

D.D.Machine said:
think of it this way ,, flip your vf3ss on its back and you have a EC400 … the horizontals before the EC line had pallet problems but from the owners I have talked to they were fixed when they went to the EC machines … 95% of the moving hardware and electronics are just VF parts..

Well for what I know, its not exactly how you said, same components of course but different construction. And plus there is 4fh axis and a pallet changer.

But yeah, I hope they have kept the quality I've found on the VF3-SS.

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Rstewart · Nov 20, 2018

If you buying a horizontal Haas for use in a production setting, I might seriously consider other options. I have not seen a Haas Horz run in person, but I can tell you that if you visit 100 shops, you might see ten of them being used.
What I'm trying to say is that if they were worth the $$ you would see more of them....
Spend a few more bucks, deal with a bulletproof Fanuc controlled Horizontal that can stand behind its name.

micmeadow · Nov 20, 2018

Rstewart said:
If you buying a horizontal Haas for use in a production setting, I might seriously consider other options. I have not seen a Haas Horz run in person, but I can tell you that if you visit 100 shops, you might see ten of them being used.
What I'm trying to say is that if they were worth the $$ you would see more of them....
Spend a few more bucks, deal with a bulletproof Fanuc controlled Horizontal that can stand behind its name.

I was actually considering a Kitamura HX400. Box ways and Fanuc 16i-TM.

It's a 2007 but it's really in great conditions. About 120k...

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micmeadow · Nov 25, 2018

Anyone got any feedback on Doosan HP or HNP machines?

Thanks!
M.

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machineit2 · Nov 26, 2018

You might want to try a Doosan forum, this is a Haas forum.

micmeadow · Nov 26, 2018

machineit2 said:
You might want to try a Doosan forum, this is a Haas forum.

I'm not finding the related category on this forum. Even if searching for "Doosan" gives me many results!

Sorry, I'm new and trying to figure out how to use the forum!

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