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Replacing Feed Drive Bearings on VN 22L. How do I remove this plug from back of knee?

J

JRock1000

Aluminum
Joined
Jan 3, 2018
Gotta replace the Bearings from the Feed Drive on Van Norman 22L. How do I remove this plug from the back of the knee?
Apparently the main shaft with the Cam (the one you see in the photo) needs a bearing replaced as well (it was a Federal 1205, I believe it's comparable to a 6205),
BUT, that's not why I pulled the knee. The shaft that drives the Main Feed pinion needs a bearing replaced as well, but it's behind the plug to the Left.
How can I get that out? There's no screws, but it's obviously a plug. Kinda soft. I could dent it if I hammered on it (prefer not to until I know what's going on with it though).
Behind it sits the Main Feed Drive Bevel Gear and Pinion. The pinion can be seen peeking out from behind the main shaft in the second photo.
Anybody have experience with it (or something similar)?
Thanks!
P1080786.jpg
P1080791.jpg
 
Haha, Soft Plug! Tap and Slide Hammer :D
Now how do I get the feed Drive assembly out, So I can replace the Pinion bearing behind that shaft (wasn't expecting that :( )?
P1080795.jpg
P1080799.jpg
 
JRock1000 said:
Haha, Soft Plug! Tap and Slide Hammer :D
Now how do I get the feed Drive assembly out, So I can replace the Pinion bearing behind that shaft (wasn't expecting that :( )?
View attachment 264079
View attachment 264080
Click to expand...

Drill and tap in the centre of the plug say around the 5/16" or 3/8 " size then use a slide hammer. If you haven't got a slide hammer a length of threaded rod and a " strong back " across the bore will allow you to wind the plug out in this case. Those are the normal method of removal for blind plugs. Can't help you with the disassembly unless you have a drawing to refer to.

If I were you and I'd got to a point were I can access the whole knee I'd strip the lot out and be sure of what you've got. Milling machine knees are notorious for coolant ingress and the result rust/rot.

Regards Tyrone.
 
Tyrone Shoelaces said:
Drill and tap in the centre of the plug say around the 5/16" or 3/8 " size then use a slide hammer. If you haven't got a slide hammer a length of threaded rod and a " strong back " across the bore will allow you to wind the plug out in this case. Those are the normal method of removal for blind plugs. Can't help you with the disassembly unless you have a drawing to refer to.

If I were you and I'd got to a point were I can access the whole knee I'd strip the lot out and be sure of what you've got. Milling machine knees are notorious for coolant ingress and the result rust/rot.

Regards Tyrone.
Click to expand...

Rust/rot does not happen if you use a good grade cutting oil instead of water based coolant....That's why all three of my K&T mills and my Southbend lathe all have cutting oil in the sumps.. If the oil gets into places where it shouldn't, it will do far less damage than water...The stink factor and the gunk which resembles dead animal carcasses is also very low... Ramsay 1:)
 
Got the soft plug out with a slide hammer.
The knee is off and hanging on an engine hoist.
I've had it pretty much apart before (on the sides and front) and most of it is in good shape, just these 2 bearings need replacing.
The one for the shaft end on the right is easy.
The one behind the Feed Drive is a pain. There's just no great way to get to it.
Why would they make such a crucial part so hard to access?
 
ramsay1 said:
Rust/rot does not happen if you use a good grade cutting oil instead of water based coolant....That's why all three of my K&T mills and my Southbend lathe all have cutting oil in the sumps.. If the oil gets into places where it shouldn't, it will do far less damage than water...The stink factor and the gunk which resembles dead animal carcasses is also very low... Ramsay 1:)
Click to expand...

That's fine if you're only working on your own machines. I had to work on whatever they put in front of me. Sometimes the smell was in my nose for a day or two after and on my hands for a while, not pleasant.

Regards Tyrone.
 
Weird thing, every now and again, I pull a screw or hit a pocket of something that smells like some Funky old oil.
A little kerosene-y but not quite. It's not awful, but it's pungent. Most of the machine doesn't smell like that.
The sump and the oil reservoirs (Inside the knee, and the Feed Motor reservoir)just smell like old oil, not that distinct "Funky Old Oil Smell".
 
JRock1000 said:
Weird thing, every now and again, I pull a screw or hit a pocket of something that smells like some Funky old oil.
A little kerosene-y but not quite. It's not awful, but it's pungent. Most of the machine doesn't smell like that.
The sump and the oil reservoirs (Inside the knee, and the Feed Motor reservoir)just smell like old oil, not that distinct "Funky Old Oil Smell".
Click to expand...

You should try and bottle that Eau De Gearbox. There'll be guys on here that would buy it.


Regards Tyrone.
 
Usually the people who use soluble in big places have programs to skim the oil off and check for rancidity... Maybe not so bad that way.. I like oil because it is plug and play.. Go away for six months and come back and you still have oil...Ramsay 1:)
 
ramsay1 said:
Usually the people who use soluble in big places have programs to skim the oil off and check for rancidity... Maybe not so bad that way.. I like oil because it is plug and play.. Go away for six months and come back and you still have oil...Ramsay 1:)
Click to expand...

Yeah I know. It's when the coolant gets inside the elements of the machine that the problems start. Knees on milling machines and aprons on lathes are the two main culprits. I have worked on machines that just used neat oil as a coolant, it's ok but even that can start to smell after a while.

Regards Tyrone.
 
Tyrone Shoelaces said:
Yeah I know. It's when the coolant gets inside the elements of the machine that the problems start. Knees on milling machines and aprons on lathes are the two main culprits. I have worked on machines that just used neat oil as a coolant, it's ok but even that can start to smell after a while.

Regards Tyrone.
Click to expand...

You have aroused my curiosity... What is "neat" oil? Ramsay 1:)
 
I think he means neat as in unadulterated, same as if you were to order a liquor "neat" - no ice, water or mixer
 
JRock1000 said:
For cutting oil?
Click to expand...

Yep, once place I worked at had a shop full of Automatic ( plugboard control ) lathes in the old days. They used the same hydraulic oil that went into the hydraulic power packs as a cutting fluid. It's unusual in my experience because obviously it's much more expensive. The place stunk like a cats home.

Regards Tyrone.
 
JRock1000 said:
For cutting oil?
Click to expand...

Yep.. What ever I could get from work for free, I would use...I found that hypoid gear oil worked well for cutting oil because it has anti weld, anti wear, extreme pressure additives.. It stinks but as far as I am concerned not nearly as bad as rotten coolant...Now and then I would get other oils and instead of throwing little bits out such as the Harley Davidson oil, I would use it for cutting oil....No problems with seized gear coolant pumps, rusty bearings and gears or nasty coolant areas..It is, after all, just my home shop and I am retired...Cheers; Ramsay 1:)
 
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