Is this phosphor bronze or beryllium copper?

SteveM · Oct 21, 2019

I have a roll 6" wide and several feet long of a copper alloy that is 0.005" thick.

It is a shiny copper color and it has very good springing properties. You can bend it and it snaps right back into place.

Is there any definitive way to tell if this is phosphor bronze or beryllium copper?

I know dad had both in the shop.

Steve

BoxcarPete · Oct 21, 2019

A definitive way? Yes. You can hold it up to the bench grinder for a few minutes. If your lungs fill with fluid and you need to be rushed to the hospital, then you can know for sure that it is BeCu.

Sorry I can't help you with a more viable method. Maybe look into chemical etching? But if you don't know for sure be very careful cutting it not to introduce ANY dust into air that you might breathe.

Philabuster · Oct 21, 2019

SteveM said:
Is there any definitive way to tell if this is phosphor bronze or beryllium copper?

XRF gun at the scrap yard might be able to give you an answer.

I did find .005" thick phosphor bronze sheets on MSC and it says it can be used for springs. I could not find BeCu in .005" thick anywhere though.

SteveM · Oct 21, 2019

BoxcarPete said:
A definitive way? Yes. You can hold it up to the bench grinder for a few minutes. If your lungs fill with fluid and you need to be rushed to the hospital, then you can know for sure that it is BeCu.

Sorry I can't help you with a more viable method. Maybe look into chemical etching? But if you don't know for sure be very careful cutting it not to introduce ANY dust into air that you might breathe.

That's the primary reason I'm trying to figure it out (also to figure how to price it - beryllium copper is more expensive).

Philabuster said:
I did find .005" thick phosphor bronze sheets on MSC and it says it can be used for springs. I could not find BeCu in .005" thick anywhere though.

Wikipedia lists both as used for springs:

Phosphor bronze - Wikipedia
Beryllium copper - Wikipedia

Steve

Peter from Holland · Oct 21, 2019

Find a piece of each that you know for sure is phosphor bronze and/or berylium copper
Then etch it with any acid you have at hand and see the differences
Probably there will be some If not Get another acid

Peter

Metalo · Oct 21, 2019

If you want to cut off a small piece and send it to me I can hit it with the XRF and see what it has to say about it. PM for address.

Mtndew · Oct 21, 2019

That seems to be too yellow for Beryllium Copper.
I'd wager that it's bronze.

thermite · Oct 22, 2019

SteveM said:
I have a roll 6" wide and several feet long of a copper alloy that is 0.005" thick.

It is a shiny copper color and it has very good springing properties. You can bend it and it snaps right back into place.

View attachment 267755

Is there any definitive way to tell if this is phosphor bronze or beryllium copper?

I know dad had both in the shop.

Steve

Specific gravity test. Electrical conductivity. Acid resistance. Colours of reagent salts. Colours as heated. Flame test...Response to heat-treat.

Heat-treat response is the more easily definitive, machine / metals shop environments, not Chemistry laboratory.

Or ... the Old Fart test?

Does not look like BeCu

Does look like Phosphor Bronze.

Handle it. Then sniff it. Which one do the ions smell like?

Yes, four-legged SOB's have a far better sense of smell that two legged SOB's.

That ignores just how very good human sense of smell is, even so.

5 axis Fidia guy · Oct 23, 2019

Beryllium copper is not that yellow, nor does it spring, it will bend and stay there.

SteveM · Oct 23, 2019

5 axis Fidia guy said:
...nor does it spring, it will bend and stay there.

All the sources I read said that it is used for springs, although there might be different alloys.

I believe that my dad had it in the shop specifically for flat springs.

Steve

thermite · Oct 23, 2019

5 axis Fidia guy said:
Beryllium copper is not that yellow, nor does it spring, it will bend and stay there.

It CAN TOO be made into springs. Seriously decent ones:

Beryllium Copper Springs Made by Atlantic Precision Spring

5 Unique Properties of Beryllium Copper

SteveM · Oct 25, 2019

Metalo said:
If you want to cut off a small piece and send it to me I can hit it with the XRF and see what it has to say about it. PM for address.

Metalo hit it with the XRF, and the verdict is in:

It's phosphor bronze.

Besides copper. it shows tin, indicating bronze, plus some phosphorous.

Phosphor bronze would have 4.2%-5.8% tin (this has 5.08%) and 0.03% to 0.35% phosphorous (this has 0.118%).

Thanks, Metalo.

Steve

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Is this phosphor bronze or beryllium copper?

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