Hiring- what can I expect

What kind of employee could I expect for $25-$30 an hour plus full benefits? This is suburban PA, probably pretty average cost of living.

I'm looking to hire someone who can help with my work load. I'm doing all of the most difficult programming, machining and inspection and can't find the time to grow the business without burning out.

I would hope that package could find someone with some more advanced technical ability but I don't really have a good grasp since I haven't had to hire anyone with technical ability yet.

yoke said:

What kind of employee could I expect for $25-$30 an hour plus full benefits? This is suburban PA, probably pretty average cost of living.

I'm looking to hire someone who can help with my work load. I'm doing all of the most difficult programming, machining and inspection and can't find the time to grow the business without burning out.

I would hope that package could find someone with some more advanced technical ability but I don't really have a good grasp since I haven't had to hire anyone with technical ability yet.

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That rate will get you a qualified CNC set up Machinist. You should be able to hand them a print, program and tool list, put them in front of a machine with an empty table and tool carousel and have them mount and align vises/fixtures, set all tools, pick up all tool and work offsets and have them come away with an inspection-ready part.

I know pay scales are better in the northeast but that rate down here would get you someone who could program plus run anything in the shop.

I think that is right[25-30]

The hard part is really judging actual ability from an interview and resume.

So many guys have sat in front of one machine making limited parts, and honestly they are skilled within that framework, but useless if you ask them to do something different

I don't wonder if you are better off saving 10 bucks an hour and hiring a trainee. In the very beginning you do not save much time, but your floor get swept and tools picked up

Yup, they are gonna start coming out of the wood work with that pay rate.

Try $18-22 to start, increases in 6 month increments.

gustafson said:

I think that is right[25-30]

The hard part is really judging actual ability from an interview and resume.

So many guys have sat in front of one machine making limited parts, and honestly they are skilled within that framework, but useless if you ask them to do something different

I don't wonder if you are better off saving 10 bucks an hour and hiring a trainee. In the very beginning you do not save much time, but your floor get swept and tools picked up

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definitely agree here

I Hired a guy from an AS9100 aerospace shop(big place not like GE but 35-40 employees). he ran the exact same mori as i wanted him to here..said he could touch off tools and make offsets etc etc.

turns out the guy really could touch off tools(only OD turning and ID bbars)
come to find out he only ran "rings" about 8-12" dia
didnt know what a threading insert even looked like, couldnt indicate a drill, and forget about facegrooving

Moral of the story definitely do your homework

tay2daizzo8 said:

definitely agree here

I Hired a guy from an AS9100 aerospace shop(big place not like GE but 35-40 employees). he ran the exact same mori as i wanted him to here..said he could touch off tools and make offsets etc etc.

turns out the guy really could touch off tools(only OD turning and ID bbars)
come to find out he only ran "rings" about 8-12" dia
didnt know what a threading insert even looked like, couldnt indicate a drill, and forget about facegrooving

Moral of the story definitely do your homework

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Hey I think he applied for a job with me..............virtually exactly the case I was thinking of

I was hoping I could get a really good jack-of-all-trades for that price.

I obviously don't want to be paying way more than I need to but if someone is truly worth a few extra bucks they will pay for themselves quickly in a shop like ours.

Those of you who have been in my position, have you hired the most skilled you could afford to hand off some of the more involved projects or hired entry level to allow some of the pressure to be released?

I am absolutely dead set on getting the skills the hire said he/she had during the interview process. I won't allow someone who is a bad fit to hold the rest of the shop back.

yoke said:

I was hoping I could get a really good jack-of-all-trades for that price.

I obviously don't want to be paying way more than I need to but if someone is truly worth a few extra bucks they will pay for themselves quickly in a shop like ours.

Those of you who have been in my position, have you hired the most skilled you could afford to hand off some of the more involved projects or hired entry level to allow some of the pressure to be released?

I am absolutely dead set on getting the skills the hire said he/she had during the interview process. I won't allow someone who is a bad fit to hold the rest of the shop back.

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For $25, I think you will get more higher end-middle of the road guy IME. For $30, you are far more likely to get closer to top shelf, but not the top end.

I will say this, FWIW, I am in FL where the "average" machinist job goes for $18-25 (top end about 25 almost...) and I make closer to $33/hr (salary) for programming and setup, plus lots of manual machine and tool & die experience.

Pretty much every single applicant you get will already be working somewhere else...so delve into why he is wanting to leave. Hopefully it is a chance for advancement, a chance to broaden his skills, a chance to help manage and grow your shop. If he is just leaving for more money, that's something to keep in mind, as people who work in this trade only for the money and not the job satisfaction will never perform at top level.

And, probably 9 out of 10 will exaggerate their skills and abilities. The proof is in the pudding so to speak, so make sure they understand what they claim on their resume and in the interview will be put to task!

I have always said machining is a profession where bullshit can only get you in the door, but where the "rubber meets the road" (inside the shop doing all the work), the bullshitters will reveal themselves.

Good luck on your hire! People like that are few and far between in our country these days...

ToolCat Greg

yoke said:

I was hoping I could get a really good jack-of-all-trades for that price.

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digger hit the nail on the head in one respect - it's easy to go up, but hard to go down. Start with 18-20 and if works, super, go up. But if not, you'll still get some help and some experience hiring.

I wouldn't do the "if you work out we'll increase your pay ... bla bla bla" stuff. Everyone hears that and we know it's b.s. Just say the rate is 18 or 20 or whatever and if the new guy turns out great, then reward accordingly. No one gets hurt expectations that way.

We have a staffing agency running current openings on the radio every day.

Nothing, I mean, nothing is over $15. And those are "Must have XXX & YYY experience" postings.

Surely you can doo a bit of research for your area.

yoke said:

I was hoping I could get a really good jack-of-all-trades for that price.

I obviously don't want to be paying way more than I need to but if someone is truly worth a few extra bucks they will pay for themselves quickly in a shop like ours.

Those of you who have been in my position, have you hired the most skilled you could afford to hand off some of the more involved projects or hired entry level to allow some of the pressure to be released?

I am absolutely dead set on getting the skills the hire said he/she had during the interview process. I won't allow someone who is a bad fit to hold the rest of the shop back.

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I've done both and both can be successful. The high-end hire that started the thread doesn't come without a learning curve. Every shop has its own sights and sounds and it takes a little time to acclimate. At that level, I'd suggest a second interview to make sure there is a clear understanding of expectations from both your end and their end.

My expectations from your perspective would be as described above for the skills end and someone invested in the long-term success of the company that is willing to become a *member* of the team before trying to become the captain of the team.

I once brought on a crackerjack at the higher end of my pay scale who interviewed perfectly and checked every box for me over two meetings. We agreed that they would start off on running jobs and more basic set ups for a couple of weeks so they could get used to the new environment. In spite of my comment that I wanted them to feel their way in and get to know their co-workers, this guy almost immediately started picking things apart in an effort to make everyone understand that he was God's gift to machining. He was with us for exactly one day. Hiring at the high end isn't without risks.

jobshopblog.com said:

this guy almost immediately started picking things apart in an effort to make everyone understand that he was God's gift to machining. He was with us for exactly one day. Hiring at the high end isn't without risks.

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We have a couple of guys like that...One will stop you as you are walking by,
and go on about it's done much better over at XYZ.
"if it's so great at XYZ, why did you quit to come here ?"

I had another one get angry with me, told me how "it was done" at XYZ boiler,
and how this person's boss would have fired me.

I simply stepped back, took a deep breath, and said "XYZ is now a parking lot (they tore the buildings down) and your boss don't work here".

Same with Hammermill Paper....ugh

cnctoolcat said:

...probably 9 out of 10 will exaggerate their skills and abilities

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Boy, if that ain't the understatement of the year.

The problem with hiring a bullshitter is that he will usually cost you money before you figure it out and let him go. And unless you have an ironclad signed-by-the-applicant probationary period for new hires, in some jurisdictions (especially those heavy with state and federal agencies) cutting a liar loose gets you a series of hearings by adjudicators predisposed to favor the employee. Here in the oil patch, every time there's a price drop and they shut rigs down we get "machinist" applicants. Many of them are not accustomed to regular bathing but because they are used to $35/hr they think that alone is an automatic qualification. So we have better luck training likely candidates from within. Shipping clerk to assembler to operator to (eventually) machinist-with-Kennedy-toolbox.

And don't get me started on job-jumpers. There's ten years of experience and there's one year of experience ten times.

Oldwrench said:

Boy, if that ain't the understatement of the year.

The problem with hiring a bullshitter is that he will usually cost you money before you figure it out and let him go. And unless you have an ironclad signed-by-the-applicant probationary period for new hires, in some jurisdictions (especially those heavy with state and federal agencies) cutting a liar loose gets you a series of hearings by adjudicators predisposed to favor the employee. Here in the oil patch, every time there's a price drop and they shut rigs down we get "machinist" applicants. Many of them are not accustomed to regular bathing but because they are used to $35/hr they think that alone is an automatic qualification. So we have better luck training likely candidates from within. Shipping clerk to assembler to operator to (eventually) machinist-with-Kennedy-toolbox.

And don't get me started on job-jumpers. There's ten years of experience and there's one year of experience ten times.

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I'm not saying anyone on this forum is guilty of it, but I've noticed something over the last 5 years or so and maybe it's worthwhile to point out.

One shop I worked at for 3 years brought me into the interviewing process for machinists, and I think we initially interviewed 5 guys. After guy #3 I finally realized our major quagmire and told the shop foreman (who was also helping conduct interviews, naturally) to SHUT THE FUCK UP. Take the guy on a shop tour, ask him how to process work, what is this tool for, what is that tool for. And let the guy talk. The more he talks and the more you can goad him into talking the more likely he is to either convince you to throw his resume out or think he's worth a shot. Maybe I think differently from others but if I go into a shop for an interview I want to lay out as much knowledge as I can to show I'm worth what I'm asking, or what the prospective employer is asking.

When I moved from that shop to my current shop I noticed the same thing. They interviewed me and asked a bit about my experience but there really wasn't a chance for a real in depth analysis of what I actually knew. Same deal...they took me on a shop tour and the foreman did most, if not all, of the talking. It's not an indictment on his personality, now that I'm in I can see clearly he's a terrific foreman, and I'm glad they hired me. Around that same time I had interviewed at another shop and the programming manager took me on a shop tour, but I couldn't get a word in edge-wise. Dude, how much can you really know about where I've been or what I've done if you don't let me talk about it?

I don't know, maybe one major qualification to being shop management is being a self-indulgent blowhard that just wants to hear yourself speak.

Which is why its easier to headhunt ...all you need is some contacts ,and a bit of a network.......I used to pay certain guys,usually technical salesmen ,a spotters fee to find good workers.....Its seems standard practice in executive ranks ,why not on the shopfloor.......a lot of businesses will say ..I wanted to pay him more ,but everyone else then wants a raise too.....Im happy he s getting a better rate.