Buying a refurbished Surface Grinder

marrt · Mar 5, 2020

I'm in need of a manual Surface Grinder for occasional use in my prototype shop. For some products like Mori Seiki lathes or Bridgeport mills, one can find a reputable refurbisher/reseller. However, I'm not aware of anyone that refurbishes Surface Grinders. Are there any options out there?

Obviously, there's plenty of used Surface Grinders around, but I'm not comfortable ordering one from the random eBay seller unless I can inspect...which, is usually not the case as the machine is too far away. Thoughts?

Kingbob · Mar 5, 2020

I feel like old Don from Suburban tool did a shop tour video of a shop local to him that rebuilt grinders. I.m sure someone will chime in or you could go dig through his youtube page to find the video.

Bill D · Mar 5, 2020

I have seen old USA made ones on craiglist for 300-500. Some have looked fairly clean but I have no idea on true condition. Search tempest is your friend. I bet the main spindle bearings are very expensive and hard to adjust correctly the first few times..
Bill

M.B. Naegle · Mar 5, 2020

IMO, like mills and lathes, only the larger or high end grinders are cost effective to rebuild (from a professional rebuilders perspective) because they are more expensive to replace. Rigging costs also play in too so most are refitted on site. Most of the time, guys will rebuild their own smaller machinery as they can factor their time and experience differently, or they'll job-out certain tasks like way grinding.

I can Google 3 or 4 rebuilder shops here in Texas, but after getting some rough quotes for my machines, I decided to learn to scrape and be selective with what I put on the floor.

thermite · Mar 5, 2020

marrt said:
I'm in need of a manual Surface Grinder for occasional use in my prototype shop. For some products like Mori Seiki lathes or Bridgeport mills, one can find a reputable refurbisher/reseller. However, I'm not aware of anyone that refurbishes Surface Grinders. Are there any options out there?

Obviously, there's plenty of used Surface Grinders around, but I'm not comfortable ordering one from the random eBay seller unless I can inspect...which, is usually not the case as the machine is too far away. Thoughts?

Have a look at Penn United, nearby East Coast, Pennsyltucky.

Parker Majestic - Precision Grinders

There are several East Coast outfits specializing in rebuild, spindles most of all, but not-only.

Usually, you will be SERIOUS money ahead with a top-end used SG that happens to have NOT been worn much nor yet NEEDED a rebuild. Worth a trip. They can grow roots and live for decades once in your space, and a(ny) poor-performer is a Royal PITA if you have to shed it.

Still kicking myself for passing on a very nice Gardner as had been only 45 minutes away in Maryland.

But it is SMARTER for me to NOT allocate the space, nor the collection of fixtures, wheels, indexers, and dressers - nor the TIME re-train long-dormant and seldom needed skills.

Sending it out to folk who grind every day, all day, are "current" in their expertise, and HAVE made that substantial investment is wiser.

Also part of the reason used SG's ARE so "available"!

marrt · Mar 6, 2020

Thanks Guys. I saw that video by Don when he toured a rebuild shop. I even looked up the location of the shop. It's a bit far from me but that shop would by a nice asset if it was closer.

I guess it's ether new cheap Asian or roll the dice on a used grinder. Surface Grinders are one of those items that's very expensive new and very cheap used...due to the risk associated with a used one.

DDoug · Mar 6, 2020

marrt said:
Thanks Guys. I saw that video by Don when he toured a rebuild shop. I even looked up the location of the shop. It's a bit far from me but that shop would by a nice asset if it was closer.

I guess it's ether new cheap Asian or roll the dice on a used grinder. Surface Grinders are one of those items that's very expensive new and very cheap used...due to the risk associated with a used one.

I don't follow "don", where was the shop ?
Name of it ?

Guest · Mar 6, 2020

marrt said:
Thanks Guys. I saw that video by Don when he toured a rebuild shop. I even looked up the location of the shop. It's a bit far from me but that shop would by a nice asset if it was closer.

I guess it's ether new cheap Asian or roll the dice on a used grinder. Surface Grinders are one of those items that's very expensive new and very cheap used...due to the risk associated with a used one.

Not sure if it is the risk or a machine a lot of people buy but don't use much, want the space back and sell it. That was the story for me and a couple small shop owning friends. When I was in Cali the local Craigslist had boat loads of grinders for $300-$500. I sold mine 10 years ago when I moved across country, don't think I have ever wanted it back.

Janderso · Mar 6, 2020

YouTube, Don Bailey -President, Suburban Tools = outstanding Made in USA products!

I was lucky, a retired machinist knew a guy and hooked me up. I bought a very nice automatic Brown and Sharpe 618 Micromaster.
Made in 1966 and is in very good condition. I paid less than $2,000 which is high for 50+ year old grinder but I have a fine machine.

DDoug · Mar 6, 2020

Janderso said:
YouTube, Don Bailey -President, Suburban Tools = outstanding Made in USA products!

I was lucky, a retired machinist knew a guy and hooked me up. I bought a very nice automatic Brown and Sharpe 618 Micromaster.
Made in 1966 and is in very good condition. I paid less than $2,000 which is high for 50+ year old grinder but I have a fine machine.

O.k. but where "In the USA" ?
and where was this grinder rebuild shop ?

nc5a · Mar 6, 2020

marrt,

You haven't mentioned your price range or size. I rebuild/refurbish machine tools in Alaska so i have a pretty fair idea what's involved, both time and cost and you probably won't like either. I'm of course assuming you are interested in something like a 6 X 12.

May I suggest that if you find a surface grinder you like online and if some distance from you. Pay someone knowledgeable in the area to look at it for you. This doesn't guarantee you will get a pristine grinder but it will likely prevent you from buying a junk grinder. Might be a couple hundred dollars well spent. Then you can refurbish it to your liking as time allows.

.

thermite · Mar 6, 2020

Dualkit said:
Not sure if it is the risk or a machine a lot of people buy but don't use much, want the space back and sell it..

THIS.

The grinder itself isn't but a fraction of the whole cost.

One needs the expertise to use it well and QUICKLY. That is not assured when used only once in a while. Can become a time-waster as much as money and space waster.

And I did mention the investment in wheels, hubs, dressers, fixtures, usually magnetic and "dedicated" for the grinder, not the same as used for a mill.

My ignorant and very basic BENCH grinders (..wire weels, buffers...) are one of the most-often utilized "machine tools" under-roof, bar none.

An SG, much as I'd LOVE what I've been able to DO with 'em would be the exact opposite.

Take up space and gather crud most of the time.

So I continue to talk meself OUT of even starting down that slippery slope!

"YMMV"

DDoug · Mar 6, 2020

Doesn't the "Full MOON over Indiana" have something "clean, low miles" fur sale down below right now ?

Conrad Hoffman · Mar 6, 2020

Oddly enough I found I use my SG about 10X more than I ever would have thought. What you want is something that wasn't used a lot, yet was taken care of, a hard to find combination. OTOH, the tables on the small ones lift off easily, so you can inspect the ways without a lot of trouble. As said above, don't underestimate the cost of wheel hubs and wheels, maybe $120 for hubs and $80 for SG wheels. IMO, it's silly not to have hubs for your main wheels. Don't ask how I know this. You'll probably also want a good grinding vise, spin fixture and maybe an end mill tool. Make sure the thing comes with a fine pitch magnetic chuck- a new Walker for a 612 is about $2800. No idea if the imports are any good; you tend to get what you pay for. Spindle bearings are typically not a difficult DIY job.

thermite · Mar 6, 2020

digger doug said:
Doesn't the "Full MOON over Indiana" have something "clean, low miles" fur sale down below right now ?

Some days you could further confuse even Fox News, Doug. That's MY job!

You talking politics, kinky sex and "orifice trim", or OTHER "used machinery"?

DDoug · Mar 6, 2020

thermite said:
Some days you could further confuse even Fox News, Doug. That's MY job!

You talking politics, kinky sex and "orifice trim", or OTHER "used machinery"?

Put your glasses on....Jeesh:
Last and best surface grinder for sale Okamoto 12 x 24 automatic

thermite · Mar 6, 2020

digger doug said:
Put your glasses on....Jeesh:
Last and best surface grinder for sale Okamoto 12 x 24 automatic

You posted in obtuse riddles.

"Glasses"?

How about KNEE PADS?

$ 6500? Plus transport.

And HE didn't use it EITHER?

Get real.. All I'd need can be had for under a grand, in-place, equipped, and making sparks - or even with coolant.

Every machine of usually SEVERAL in a professional, "for revenue" grind shop is in brand-new condition? Surely NOT. Like the rest of us, they "run what they got", compensate with skill.

Even were it to be delivered and installed fully tooled and wheeled "for free" and with 40 hours of (re) training?

I can't afford the space nor any more "diversions" than I already have too-many of.

Surface what one can "by hand", send-out what one cannot, IF/AS/WHEN so required...or JF do without the fine touch of a proper grinder.. is what works.

And not just "here".

That's why the market is chock full of used SG's. Rather more in at least 'usable' condition than not.

David_M · Mar 6, 2020

Don Bailey's field trip to Plason:

Plason Scraping:

Machine Repair | Madison Heights, MI | Plason Scraping

projectnut · Mar 7, 2020

Have you checked your local craigslist? A quick check came up with about 10 used machines in the state. The most promising one looks to be Parker Majestic 6" x 18" out of Winchester.

Parker majestic surface grinder - tools - by owner - sale

I'm sure you can get in touch with the owner and inspect it to see if it's what you're looing for.

I found a Sanford MG in good condition on Craigslist in our area a few years ago. It was built in 1954, but is in excellent condition. Over the years it's had some new spindle bearings and leadscrew nuts, but when I inspected it I was more than pleased with the condition

This is the way the machine looked when I purchased it 6 years ago, and it still looks the same today.

marrt · Mar 7, 2020

I guess rebuilder is not the proper term. I was thinking more about a "reconditioner" or reseller that can attest to the SG's condition and can be trusted. Like Greer does for Mori Seiki and Whacheon manual lathes. There's certainly a lot of machinery dealers around, but most learned a long time ago to make no claims about the condition of used machines. At least not in writing. So, it's pretty difficult to buy from one of these guys unless the machine can be inspected...or the reseller is known to only deal in quality machines.

A lot of manual machines probably don't see much use any more as production shops want an automatic machine. Still, when you're talking about a machine expected to deliver in the tenths, and which generates its own abrasive dust, it's a crapshoot unless I can inspect or trust the seller.

Would I pay $5K for the right used machine...of course. On the other hand, $10K for a new Taiwan manual machine wouldn't make sense for my intended use.

Buying a refurbished Surface Grinder

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