Hybrid vdi turret tool holder questions

wrustle · Sep 15, 2020

So we have a new ST-10Y sitting on our floor with a 12 Station HYBRID VDI Turret.

Machine came with two bolt on ID tool blocks. Not enough to even drill, tap and c'sink a hole.

With 5 stick tool stations being used up, RGH TURN-FIN TURN-OD GROOVE-THREADING-COMBO CUTOFF/BARPULL, I only have 2 free stations for ID tool holders.

Given the fact neither the ID bolt on Blocks or the VDI ID tool holders are not cheap, which is the best way to go do get the most for my dollars spent?

I know the bolt on blocks are solid and work great.....it's all I've ever used, but this VDI system has me guessing how good it really would be in this application, and given the cost of the holders, I do not want to "trial and error" this decision.

Later,
Russ

Mtndew · Sep 15, 2020

wrustle said:
So we have a new ST-10Y sitting on our floor

And you didn't do a "new machine day" thread about it?
How dare you!

wrustle · Sep 15, 2020

Mtndew said:
And you didn't do a "new machine day" thread about it?
How dare you!

To be continued..............

Ox · Sep 15, 2020

Well, IDK anything about Haas machines, especially lathes, nor what their turret arrangement is.

I've not seen a top plate that has both VDI or bolt-on as options, but - I would take the bolt-on most likely every time.

The drop in VDI cross werking live toys I guess are fine?

The bolt-on holders will always be more rigid, and definately more accurate as far as C/L is concerned.

VDI is for quick change, but your not going to change these blocks out...

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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

wheelieking71 · Sep 15, 2020

Like Ox said, VDI is quick change stuff. Why burden yourself with it, if your tools are pretty standard? (too late now)
It sucks up a ton of Z and creates clearance issues. Whatever is in the VDI next to a bolt-on stick tool is gonna be way proud.
Not a huge deal with a collet system. But, with a chuck? It becomes a PITA.

Ox · Sep 15, 2020

I ass_u_me that his VDI pockets are on the OD of the top plate.

I haven't seen many modern lathes with it as you are thinking.
That's mostly old skewl Yamazaki, and entry level Hardinges. (Cobra)

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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

wheelieking71 · Sep 15, 2020

Ox said:
I ass_u_me that his VDI pockets are on the OD of the top plate.

I haven't seen many modern lathes with it as you are thinking.
That's mostly old skewl Yamazaki, and entry level Hardinges. (Cobra)

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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Just google "haas hybrid turret" and check the pics. There are 6 regular stick-tool locations, with 6 VDI locations betwixt.
I spent some time at one of these a ways back. PITA

Ox · Sep 15, 2020

Boy - that IS a bad set-up...

OK then - that is diff than Wruss made it sound (to me).

I'm not seeing how you have a choice of which to use.
Every other station is going to use what it needs to use.
No choice then.

So - what's the question?

... more thought....

Near as I can figger - if you needed to put an extra centerline toy in one of the other stations, it would seem to be to be with LOTS of Clarence issues with the adjacent toys and the chuck. Since they are not all on the outside of the top plate - you would default to a reduced distance between toys.

No???

edit:

You want your C/L toys (drills) to be as far from the center of the turret as possible to clear the chuck.

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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Fancuku · Sep 16, 2020

wrustle said:
Given the fact neither the ID bolt on Blocks or the VDI ID tool holders are not cheap, which is the best way to go do get the most for my dollars spent?

You gotta pay to play. Get as many VDI holders as you can for boring bars. Get 1 holder for each boring bar that you use. The time saved on swapping tools in and out in a setup pays for the tool holders in just a few months in my opinion.
I run a lathe at work with VDI holders (no live tooling) and I have 1 holder for each different size boring bars, ID grooves and drills. I made a list of which offsets I use for each tool so I now I just swap tools in and out. No more touching off as I use different offset for each tool. Just back off my X wear offset a couple of thou and that's it.

g-coder05 · Sep 16, 2020

One of my biggest blunders in purchasing machines over the years was ordering (5) ST-20Y's with that hybrid turret. That is the biggest cluster FK in the history of turret cluster FKs! I thought they had so many complaints they discontinued them?!? I don't see on the site it is an option anymore, Did you get a leftover?

We just had to suck it up and get creative and make our own tool blocks.

I have a blank design that bolts to the face of the turret as well as wraps around to the side of the turret so you get 8 bolts holding it on and you can carve whatever you want to hold multiple tools in a single station. Here's one with an OD stick tool and boring bar holder in the same tool. If you want the cad file let me know and ill upload it to my site and send a link. I designed it so you don't have to use any plumbing to get coolant to either tool, just use fish eyes, kinda convenient.

Screen Shot 2020-09-17 at 11.53.11 AM.jpg

Screen Shot 2020-09-17 at 11.53.46 AM.jpg

ChipSplitter · Sep 17, 2020

Wrustle, remember that with a Y axis machine you can double up some of your tools (toys??) per station. i.e., OD roughing and finishing can use the same station as well as drills........

Just my $0.02.

Also.......will this be a wrustle new-machine-day...???? Six pages until the first pics?

wrustle · Sep 18, 2020

ChipSplitter said:
Wrustle, remember that with a Y axis machine you can double up some of your tools (toys??) per station. i.e., OD roughing and finishing can use the same station as well as drills........

Just my $0.02.

Also.......will this be a wrustle new-machine-day...???? Six pages until the first pics?

I hear what you're saying, but I don't understand what you said.

I have a LOT to learn here, so if you can explain that to me, it would be great!

ChipSplitter · Sep 18, 2020

wrustle said:
I hear what you're saying, but I don't understand what you said.

I have a LOT to learn here, so if you can explain that to me, it would be great!

To be continued at MY convenience.................

Basically what I'm saying is that you can use your Y axis for more than just milling.

Here is a great example that litlerob set up (sorry, rob...) :

If you look closely there are doubled static tools in the 5 o'clock position.

Obviously you could substitute more static turning tools for the gang live tooling if you need it.

Ox · Sep 18, 2020

I bet that he could git the top plate exchanged yet.

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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

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