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BARBER COLMAN lathes... anyone have one?

tnmgcarbide

Diamond
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Location
N. GA- 33.992N , -83.72W usa
i'm looking at one online. supposed to be very sophisticated, according to Tony at lathes-uk. that could
be really cool...or a major disaster. i've never seen one in person . any info would be appreciated.
 
"infinitely variable electronic controls" for spindle speed and sliding feeds- down to 0.0001 . i don't
typically turn at a .0001 feedrate.... repairing that type of arrangement could be "sophisticated" at best.

just want to know if i should go any further with the sale.
 
Peter Haas, one time Monarch forum moderator spoke about the variable speed drive system being problem prone, and, I am not sure if anyone has been able to get one going.
It is a DC drive however. These old toolroom machines have been talked about for years, if my memory is right, the logical step is a VFD conversion, that may not be so bad in cost.
I think the BC company took over the lathe from another company after they closed, it had various drives including motor generator, and vacuum tubes, ending up with a solid state drive, that smells bad when it goes out.
The machine is like a Monarch ee, if its in good shape, it could be a bargain compared to way over priced worn out Monarch ee,
 
good grief, do you mean that ''You know who'' hasn't at least 6 Barber Colmans tucked away in his shop?

Mark my words;-they'll be electing a democrat president next.
 
I've no first-hand experience with BC, but my understanding from accumulated reading was that Barber Coleman bought out Hendey and kept making their lathes for about 10 years or so, but their quality started to decline before finally the line was scrapped. Not in the sense of using shoddy materials or cheap components, but that their assembly QC and testing of new designs suffered since they didn't really care for bettering the product so much as just trying to boost sales. BC lathes had the advantage of being the next generation of "modern" lathes, but other than that, the prior Hendey lathes were better built.
 
That does indeed sound like a B/C tool & Gagemaker lathe. These were designed in the late thirties so they are contemporaries of the Monarch 10EE. They were initially 9 X 18 inch machines which after WWII were upgraded to 9 X 24 (actual 10 inch swing). Compared to the 10EE they had a D1-4 spindle nose with 1 & 1/2 thru hole thru the spindle. The gearbox provided 66 feeds or threads with the finest feed being 0.001”; however by changing the gears on the banjo a 0.0001 feed could be obtained.
My machine was delivered in December 1956 (information provided by Hendeyman) and was power by an electronic drive similar to the “works in the drawer” of the 10EE. I replaced this with a 3 phase motor and VFD. I have not operated a 10EE but I assume one in good working order would generate quality work similar to the 10EE without all the hassles of Monarch’s complicated operation.
 
There were only 3 toolroom lathes with electronic DC drives back then, or have showed up, the other was a Sydney that was also branded South Bend, those are very rare.
I have one of the last vacuum tube Monarch ee lathes, it is 38 yrs old, and has 88 wires, and 8 transformers!
 
"infinitely variable electronic controls" for spindle speed and sliding feeds- down to 0.0001 . i don't
typically turn at a .0001 feedrate.... repairing that type of arrangement could be "sophisticated" at best.

just want to know if i should go any further with the sale.

Barber-Colman certainly did buy the Hendey line of "lathes and shapers".
Hendeyman would know how their "end-game" went down at the time of transfer. Prolly already in PM annals?

But I thot B-C was where the design that would have followed the Rivett 10X0S wandered-off to?

You had:

10EE, 13EE / 1000EE - NO relation.

Hendey T&G with ISTR 3 different Drives, one that include a Reeves, another with a Fairchild or Rexnord version of a PIV Werner-Reimers, and one that was "electronic". Trboatworks rebuilt his nicely - PIV drive included.

Rivett 1020s / 1030S "compounded" Reeves.. but not-only. They had another drie similar to 13EE or 1000EE?

Nebel Microturn? We've only ever seen 2 on PM that I recall, one of them a member's personally owned? Another a plant selling it off? But again no relation.

Sidney? Pass. I know not about an electric drive.

Only one I ever looked at was in "Little" Washington PA, easy one-day go fetch. I lived there as a kid. About 1949. It was the "semi-conventional" "Herringbone" and waaay too big for my needs OR space. 22" or 24" and not a short bed, IIRC?

That's just the USA.

Otherwise, it's just a "technological era" thing as to old DC or AC drives being problematic.

Ex; if one had the second-generation Lodge & Shipley "AVS", it had a sophisticated for its DAY variable speed inverter drive. Problematic in its Old Age? Assuredly!

But.. nowadays we just call those "VFD". And they are all over the place.

So if the AC motor is good? One guts the old inverter drive and replaces it with a MODERN VFD. 1-P input OR 3-P input. Easy one-box drop-in.

3-P AC motors aren't hard to find, either.

IF.. one had the FIRST generation Lodge & Shipley AVS? DC Motor. Early-days DC Drives. Same deal. Gut the wiring. Drop in a modern "4Q" DC Drive 1-P input OR 3-P input.

Lots of choices as to the electronics. Finding DC motors might not be as easy. No shortage. They just COST a lot more.

Even so, it should be obvious that if one went to 3-P + VFD, the factory has already done that, so you won't really have an "orphan" that has to be re-invented, all alone, and in the dark.

That was L&S.

B-C? Much the same. Can't preserve? Convert.

Main thing is the costly spindle bearings.

Ways and cross? One can compensate.
Gears can be made.

Uber high-grade bearings? Never cheap!

The electronically variable feeds? Close cousin to any other electronic feed as far as to function, Hardinge onward.

How hard can it be to adapt off the mill traverse or CNC world if it cannot simply be repaired or upgraded?

Not hard. Not hard and not expensive, either.
We are surrounded by choices of salvaged gear in good condition to apply or re-purpose.

It need not look identical to OEM.
So long as it is useful? It need not even FUNCTION identically to OEM.

Bearings? That would be my show-stopper.

Fortunately, one of the easier things to check.
 
That was another stupid post termite! I am not going to let up on you!
In fact termite I am going to double down on your worthless ass.
I told you to kill off your bully termite ID!
You are not going to get away labeling me as a drug addict, criminal or what ever you feel throwing at me.
You are a stalker, liar, and a lousy fuck....YOU got that little man?
 
I have one of the Hendey T&G round heads circa 1930 and thankfully no electronics.
It is a type I typical gear head lathe with attached gear drive for feeds in addition to stepped pulleys and an enclosed L-B Reeves like drive which steps motor speed to all the prior.

I have it on a VFD just to overcome shop voltage issues and only use the drive to reverse the spindle on occasion.

Barber Coleman retained the round head for a few years after they bought out Hendey but the drives continued as under Hendey to become increasingly engineered 'electronic' aberrations (to my mind..) just as was the case with the Monarch.

For a simple manual lathe I find the sliding lever to gear box, gear head, and dial to mechanical Reeves fully adequate to control the machine and everything can be repaired as needed which is more than handy for a old Hendey..

The only thing that makes me sweat is the oddball L-B drive and finding a belt for it should it ever give out..

If anyone has a belt for this stuffed in a cabinet beers are on me...

C3435779-859D-4CB9-B80B-E08DCC849936_1_201_a.jpg
 
I have one of the Hendey T&G round heads circa 1930 and thankfully no electronics.
It is a type I typical gear head lathe with attached gear drive for feeds in addition to stepped pulleys and an enclosed L-B Reeves like drive which steps motor speed to all the prior.

I have it on a VFD just to overcome shop voltage issues and only use the drive to reverse the spindle on occasion.

Barber Coleman retained the round head for a few years after they bought out Hendey but the drives continued as under Hendey to become increasingly engineered 'electronic' aberrations (to my mind..) just as was the case with the Monarch.

For a simple manual lathe I find the sliding lever to gear box, gear head, and dial to mechanical Reeves fully adequate to control the machine and everything can be repaired as needed which is more than handy for a old Hendey..

The only thing that makes me sweat is the oddball L-B drive and finding a belt for it should it ever give out..

If anyone has a belt for this stuffed in a cabinet beers are on me...

View attachment 320720

"PIV". POSITIVE Infinitely Variable" is not an enclosed rubber-belt Reeves at all. That's the same 9" Hendey T&G as the last couple of times I was at your place. Metallic belt, rather.

One of two (that I know of) Licensed copies for the metallic belt and cross-pin drive with tips carried in slotted metal cones, each side of the 1924 "PIV Werner-Reimers". The other a Fairchild product.

My one, on the Alzmetall AB5/s drillpress, is an OEM German-made one BY "PIV-Werner-Reimers" around 1951. Now a DANA-Brevini subsidiary, they are still an active maker and parts source as well:

https://www.linkedin.com/company/piv-drives-gmbh

Never mind scarce old machine tools ... just as we recently discovered the 10EE Sunstrand drive has a revised version still being sold brand-new and Sundstrand-branded to agricultral equipment, groundskeeping, and contruction equipment makers that is a drop-in fit to the PREVIOUSLY THOUGHT TO BE Unicorn-rare Sundstrand predecessor Monarch once used?

PIV drives are also very common in mining and processing for conveyor drives and the like.

There remains an active market for new units, parts, service, and even full rebuilds for all of the variations, regardless of OEM branding or internal variations.

PIV Drives | AC Compacting Equipment – Authorized Service Center for PIV Drives & Chains | 732-249-6900

PIV Drives : Industrial-Gearbox.com : Suppliers of new single, double and triple reduction gearboxes. Replacement parts for bevel, helical and worm gearboxes

PIV Horizontal Drives – Gayatri Gear

https://www.comoso.com/uploads/prod...oso_Manual_PIV_Drives_POSIRED_Ver_1.01_en.pdf

But noo.. I don't have one stuffed anywhere yet.. trying to make my one last a while longer! As they tend to do.. thankfully! So long as not really noisey, it can have a lot of life left in it. Unlike rubber, a patient craftsman can even make his own parts, but whywuddja?

When they start to go? They sort of "rumble" .. but keep-on working!

It's my several Reeves & similar variators as have cost far the more outlay for their resilient belts!

"More's the pity!"
 
Clever system to have variable sheaves and positive drive. The facing sheaves must have complementary grooves/ribs and the stacked metal strips in the belt all find a home somewhere.
 
Clever system to have variable sheaves and positive drive. The facing sheaves must have complementary grooves/ribs and the stacked metal strips in the belt all find a home somewhere.

All the hard work is actually done BY the tips of the spaced-out master cross-pins in the grooves. The metal links superfically resemble a Morse rocker-link chain but are NOT. More like a watchband on closer look, actually, with the rather few drive cross-pins well spaced-out. Doesn't LOOK as if it has fine-enough "granularity" to work at all. Never got the memo. JFDI and witchcraft-smoothly.

Oddly, Werner Reimers wasn't the actual inventor. He was a "promoter" who saw potential in some other guy's design, worked out the bugs, then sold the Hell out of it to build a bizness.

Good drives. Very. Running in an EP oil, they beat a Reeves - early-fail victim IF oily - all to Hell and GONE, and I have several of those, too.

I also have a tiny Graham ring drive variable around here. Heavy and expensive bugger for silly-small power, but glass-smooth. Special lube there. "Traction oil". Same with some Automotive "CVT". Costly s**t. Sure don't want bad seals!
 
"PIV". POSITIVE Infinitely Variable" is not an enclosed rubber-belt Reeves at all. That's the same 9" Hendey T&G as the last couple of times I was at your place. Metallic belt, rather.

One of two (that I know of) Licensed copies for the metallic belt and cross-pin drive with tips carried in slotted metal cones, each side of the 1924 "PIV Werner-Reimers". The other a Fairchild product.

My one, on the Alzmetall AB5/s drillpress, is an OEM German-made one BY "PIV-Werner-Reimers" around 1951. Now a DANA-Brevini subsidiary, they are still an active maker and parts source as well:

https://www.linkedin.com/company/piv-drives-gmbh

Never mind scarce old machine tools ... just as we recently discovered the 10EE Sunstrand drive has a revised version still being sold brand-new and Sundstrand-branded to agricultral equipment, groundskeeping, and contruction equipment makers that is a drop-in fit to the PREVIOUSLY THOUGHT TO BE Unicorn-rare Sundstrand predecessor Monarch once used?

PIV drives are also very common in mining and processing for conveyor drives and the like.

There remains an active market for new units, parts, service, and even full rebuilds for all of the variations, regardless of OEM branding or internal variations.

PIV Drives | AC Compacting Equipment – Authorized Service Center for PIV Drives & Chains | 732-249-6900

PIV Drives : Industrial-Gearbox.com : Suppliers of new single, double and triple reduction gearboxes. Replacement parts for bevel, helical and worm gearboxes

PIV Horizontal Drives – Gayatri Gear

https://www.comoso.com/uploads/prod...oso_Manual_PIV_Drives_POSIRED_Ver_1.01_en.pdf

But noo.. I don't have one stuffed anywhere yet.. trying to make my one last a while longer! As they tend to do.. thankfully! So long as not really noisey, it can have a lot of life left in it. Unlike rubber, a patient craftsman can even make his own parts, but whywuddja?

When they start to go? They sort of "rumble" .. but keep-on working!

It's my several Reeves & similar variators as have cost far the more outlay for their resilient belts!

"More's the pity!"

Bill that is why I said "Reeves like"

The mechanics are the same in that cones vary in separation distance which change the ratio of the belt.
Belt material, cone grooves etc notwithstanding....


My point was just to place a description of the primary components not parse their specific nature but thanks for the links.
I put in the highest quality lube I could find of the right sort and so far mine runs quiet and smooth.
In my lazy, inattentive, back burner way I am on the look out for a set of cones and a belt as spares.
I will probably toss it in before I need any of it..

I did tear the drive completely down, flushed out the debris and changed the shaft bearings on the shell of the drive when I rebuilt the lathe so I share your appreciation for what a nicely designed bit of kit it is.
 








 
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