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2.5" facemill on straight shank arbor?

Lock

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Looking for opinions on the legitimacy of running a 2.5" toolmex 45deg fm on a straight shank 3/4 to 3/4 arbor on a 5hp continuous 7.5hp peak spindle.

Issue is this old Kitamura is 35 taper and all the holders I can find are 1.25" arbor(have one here) and all the face mills I see are 4"+ with that arbor size and this mill really can't handle that(both carrousel and power/rigidity)

I purchased a toolmex 2.5" fm with the idea to either machine out arbor hole to work with 1.25" tool holder, make an adaptor to connect them(basically an extension,) or make new tool holder with 3/4 arbor; however, have been looking into these straight shank arbors which would go into a solid endmill tool holder(weldon style)

would this be asking too much of the tooling?

regards,

Lock
 
BT35 is pretty common stuff. I sold a BT35 Kitamura not long ago and had several face mill arbors for it.

If you really can't buy one, modify the holder you have to be what you need. That seems fairly simple. They aren't very hard.
 
you can find all the 1.25" holders you want, it's finding a cutter that fits an arbor that big that is small enough to work with a spindle this size... I have changed a drill chuck tool holder (jacobs 3 to b20 iirc) was a lyndex holder and it didn't take very long to get through the case hard... fine for low speed random drill stuff but not sure I want to try and do it for a facemill holder and also getting that to run as true as is necessary would be fun...
 
If you plan to bury the load meter? Absolutely!
Otherwise, it isn't about max spindle power, it's about how hard you task it.

:)

You surely ain't the first person who ever needed this!
Just "acquire" the proper arbour. Or facemill. Or both.

Lots of folks can make them for you."Somebody" already does. More than one.
Facemills or arbours.

Toolmex is not the only game in town. Thank God in her infinite wisdom.

Seek harder.
Monkey-patch less.

:)

I implore you to find me a 2.5" fm with an 1.25" arbor, I have one and it's a pos... don't think they make anything less than 4" with 1.25" arbor. I bought the toolmex for cheap to modify just looking for easier alternative to making parts go together like this with sub .0003 tir
 
I.. can "find" just about ANYTHING I want. And a whole lot more I wouldn't wish on even an enemy!

:)

OTHER FOLKS find BT35 arbours and the milling-cutters they need every day of every week. They are earning a crust wit' 'em, not moping about over "can't".

I Left My Love/US Cavalry Song-The Horse Soldiers/John Ford- Les Cavaliers (En/Fr Lyrics) - YouTube

If you have internet connectivity good enough to come here and whine?

You have internet connectivity good enough to go elsewhere and FIND.

JFDI

ok dude, clearly you have no idea about what is or isn't available for them... hell lyndex doesn't even make stuff for them anymore. literally the only holder other than 1.25" that displays during searching the entire internet is a 4" projection 3/4" arbor that sold on ebay years ago. Not here whining, looking for ideas that are less annoying that making the entire gd holder which I very well may do and sell since there isn't ANYTHING AVAILABLE(just like kitamura studs which I already made a run of).... as for folks making stuff I have only asked one manufacturer (maritool) about helping me and both times they were so disinterested in this problem and doing what there website says they do I doubt I will ever have money for them... get of your high horse

you clearly are of no use to the topic or you would say oh yea lookup jimbob jo eff he has loads of tools or manufactures this obsolete tooling... far as I know the only new tooling is coming out for the router croud which I doubt uses face mills
 
BT35 is pretty common stuff. I sold a BT35 Kitamura not long ago and had several face mill arbors for it.

If you really can't buy one, modify the holder you have to be what you need. That seems fairly simple. They aren't very hard.

the big reason other than cutting through the case hard I see is the thread on the 1.25" is 16mm so by the time I would get to .75 I wouldn't have much wall left...
 
Unsure the question,
This size cutter on a .750 shank up tight at this hp not a problem at all.
Add that this a 45 cutter and gosh easy.
We can do max depth and feed vs torque at the interface as power available but I see this as easy.
Want fun, swing a 16 tooth 8 inch dia, steel body cutter on a 3/4 shank in a B-port collet.
Bob
 
you can find all the 1.25" holders you want, it's finding a cutter that fits an arbor that big that is small enough to work with a spindle this size... I have changed a drill chuck tool holder (jacobs 3 to b20 iirc) was a lyndex holder and it didn't take very long to get through the case hard... fine for low speed random drill stuff but not sure I want to try and do it for a facemill holder and also getting that to run as true as is necessary would be fun...

Why do you think it needs to be hard?
 
Why do you think it needs to be hard?

? It's somewhat hard from one of the largest tool manufactures in the world... It's kinda a moot point though as the tool holder would be less than 1/8" thick by the time it got to .750
 
Unsure the question,
This size cutter on a .750 shank up tight at this hp not a problem at all.
Add that this a 45 cutter and gosh easy.
We can do max depth and feed vs torque at the interface as power available but I see this as easy.
Want fun, swing a 16 tooth 8 inch dia, steel body cutter on a 3/4 shank in a B-port collet.
Bob

not concerned about 3/4 arbor size, it's just not a common size in the used market and this taper is uncommon already so locating a used 3/4 arbor has been fruitless so far... the question was would using a straight shank facemill arbor in a solid endmill toolholder have the a$$ to hold up to this spindle without slipping etc. I have my doubts whether it would be up to the task but thought id ask here for other input. This is the style holder I'm asking about: Eagle Rock Straight Shank Shell Mill Arbor, A1-36-0750-1000 - SMA-400 - Penn Tool Co., Inc
 
buried in one of command tooling's (last bt35 maker?) they have part numbers for 3/4, 1 and 1 1/4 holders. I will give them a call in AM and report with pricing and or availability for future reference.
 
You were talking about introducing "stacking" error, right out of the box, when you came through PM's door fretting over loading / holding power?

Weldon-style side locks are right GOOD.. but I ain't met one YET as true as a bespoke arbor can be. Let alone a factory-balanced integral mount.

And you still have THAT TIR - face or shell mill to arbour - before you even insert that straight shank into the side-lock. And clamp it?

Sub three tenths you expect? Get TF real!

I doo this s**t.

Chandler-Duplex and such are on straight shanks.

But I'm all-manual, NO tool-changer or karussel/magazine, have no deadlines but my own... native 40-taper collets.. ER-40, TG-100, Weldons on 40-taper.. Weldons on PDQ-Marlin to 40-taper. #9 B&S native collets AND side-locks and PDQ-Marlins.. with side-locks... ... And a few more odds and sods.

The best of it bought new. From Frank Mari. So VERY well made it is cheaper than Chicom at the end of its working life.

You run a "revenue" shop. You want that Kitamura to pay the bills?

Pay attention to those (not I) who have RUN them for their crust.

Give it solid load-and-forget tooling that can deliver consistent results, first time, every time, all the time.

Not retiree/hobbyist monkey-patched fiddle-f**kery scrounged-up "used" and Chicom-cheap even before it was wore-out ....and begging for a chance to show you what a crash and downtime does to your ability to earn that crust.

You think that's useless advice?

Explain, then why I can afford Maritool's best ... because it is WORTH what is asked... and you struggle to even understand the business, let alone pay for what you need.

When Job ONE was to make MONEY? I tooled my shops to do exactly that.
They did. I did. I even got to keep some of it!

Old horse, great tooling? Run it sanely, you eat and grow.

Great horse, s**t tooling? Unrealistic expectations? All you do is s**t your "savings" away.

Try it the right way 'round. Tool well. Run what you HAVE.
Not what you only WISH you had.

BT35 has become a PITA to tool?

BFD. Replace the machine.

They pay for themselves, after all.

You have absolutely nothing of value to this convo so kindly find someone else to troll.
 
Command tooling is out, They don't have there fixturing anymore and apparently "custom tooling" to them means modifying something they do day to day, I assume this is the same with Mari...
 
Nikken Lyndex is no go as well, 1 1.25" pcs left and no interest in making a true custom piece
 
I would try Mari at least. Explain the situation and maybe he'll help you out. Failing that, I'm with Garwood, buy any used adapter with enough meat in it and make what you need. Pilot end doesn't need to be hardened if you're not going to be swapping tools a lot.

Oh, and don't mind Thermite, he does so enjoy a good confounding blather. :D
 
I would try Mari at least. Explain the situation and maybe he'll help you out. Failing that, I'm with Garwood, buy any used adapter with enough meat in it and make what you need. Pilot end doesn't need to be hardened if you're not going to be swapping tools a lot.

Oh, and don't mind Thermite, he does so enjoy a good confounding blather. :D

I have twice, I assume custom to them means modifying existing stuff just like command... Mari was the first folks I called asking about this issue... Yea I figured such... anyone with the kinda post count he has over the same timeline doesn't have alot going on in life:rolleyes5:
 
I don't see an issue with what you want to do. If you grind a decent flat (just large enough for a cup point to it can't move up or down) it should be fine.
 
Called Techniks(still imports er32 holders for the routers) said they could custom make min 3pcs at roughly $200 ea with 6mo lead and they would deff be interested in buying several if a run was made; my rep(techniks) suggested Leitz tooling and Brinney tooling for quicker results, Brinney could make them but said it would be aprox $600ea and Leitz is looking into shrink fitting a straight shank arbor(guess they make shrink fit holders for the router crowd,) supposed to get a call back from them in AM.

Really starting to think the best COA is to do a straight shank short term until I can make a short run of proper holders which involves moving an OD grinder home and reassembling.
 
This is an easy machining job with a decent lathe. You don't need to make the entire toolholder. Just start with one close and whittle away what you don't want.

I have toolholders that were welded up and machined. Probably done in the 80's and still working fine.

OD grinder is fine, but not required at all.
 








 
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