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Looking for some direction/ advice...

smokeshow

Plastic
Joined
Sep 14, 2012
Location
United States
I recently was promoted to Cnc Lead.

So let me help you understand where I am coming from...Cnc Mill and Lathe programmer retired, (early and unannounced)... And the "machinist" quit because he wasn't willing to learn to program.

My department has 5 axis Cnc Flow Waterjet, 3 axis Cnc Press Brake, 2 axis Cnc Shear, 3 axis Cnc Haas Vertical Mill, and 3 axis Cnc Haas Lathe.

Up until recently I have programmed/operated the waterjet, brake and shear. I would do light operation and edits in G code on existing programs on the mill (feeds/speeds and tools/height etc...) and basically a button pusher on the lathe.

So I took it upon myself to try and learn Solidworks, so I could begin doing some programming on the mill. On which I have achieved some success in the 2 weeks since starting. I've made approximately 10-15 working and (currently) running production programs. But, by no means do I feel proficient or efficient at it yet.

But our company president walked out on the shop floor (and I was like oh, crap... what did I screw up). He proceeded to say, "Thank you for going above and beyond on your own, and I want to give you a blank check for success. Whatever you need as far as training/ schooling and software. You can have it, no matter what. Even if you complete it and leave the company for a better job, I am willing to take that risk."

So that being said, I am looking for some outside viewpoints and ideas/suggestions/input. I am not a machinist, but apparently I need to "assume" that role somewhat now. I feel like in order to really grasp programming both the lathe and mill, you need to operate them efficiently.


Possible Ideas...
Haas Certificate Programs (Any real value?)(Short term solution)
Community College (mid length investment)
UTI CNC Machining Program (Orlando)(long term/long investment)

I am located in the Tampa Bay Area. (Florida)

Any other information that you need from me, I'll be glad to help.
 
If you will be creating your own models obviously Solidworks is a good place to learn, if you are being sent 3d models, I have gotten the most help from having someone nearby I could ask for help. I know that isn't always an option, but I had the luxury of learning to program on the job. We use Gibbscam and they offer training courses all over, I still think that might be useful for me to learn the ins and outs. I didn't go to trade school, but from what I've seen and heard, you will probably be learning much more on the job than you would per hour just figuring it out
 
Typical......Boss has you overloaded and knows it. He stopped short of what you really need.....MORE HELP! IMO, that is a direction of burnout. To be really proficient, you need to stay focused on one sector or task. Being the 3D guy, programmer, machinist, shop lead, etc, etc, is too much.

And he wants to get you schooling that will be fit in where? On your time?

IDK, maybe it just rubs me the wrong way as I was taken advantage of in ever job I ever had. They find out you can do stuff and stack it on.
 
Take him up on the training, and ask for an assistant.

Basic Haas training is a one day course, and can probably teach you a few things you haven't picked up on your own. Worth it. But make sure it's on the same generation of control as your shop has.
Solidworks + whichever CAM you choose - especially the CAM. Worth a few days training. Get a decent CAM package, it pays off fast.
Get a seat of NCPlot to check your programs in. It's only a couple hundred dollars. It'll run macros too.
 
Typical......Boss has you overloaded and knows it. He stopped short of what you really need.....MORE HELP! IMO, that is a direction of burnout. To be really proficient, you need to stay focused on one sector or task. Being the 3D guy, programmer, machinist, shop lead, etc, etc, is too much. You're not wrong, and I'm only one person...

And he wants to get you schooling that will be fit in where? On your time?
We talked a little about what that would actually look like, And how that would be accomplished... and there wasn't a definitive direction or answer.
But if it was done on my own time, I would track my time and be compensated accordingly. But if I'm honest, I'm still not sure how I feel about that part of the equation.

IDK, maybe it just rubs me the wrong way as I was taken advantage of in ever job I ever had. They find out you can do stuff and stack it on.

I am up for performance review soon, so that might help me understand how "valued" I am, versus talked to...
 
Take him up on the training, and ask for an assistant.

Basic Haas training is a one day course, and can probably teach you a few things you haven't picked up on your own. Worth it. But make sure it's on the same generation of control as your shop has.
I am worried that it may not be same controls also.
Solidworks + whichever CAM you choose - especially the CAM. Worth a few days training. Get a decent CAM package, it pays off fast.
Get a seat of NCPlot to check your programs in. It's only a couple hundred dollars. It'll run macros too.

We currently use Solidworks for Cam also...
 
Between yourself, the retired CNC guy, and the machinist who quit, three positions are being squished into one. Consider hiring one or two guys - maybe an operator to backfill your old job and then an experienced machinist?

There are the people that know how to do everything and then there are the people (“managers”) that may or may not know everything but DO know how to get *other* people to be productive….managers make the big bucks if you can get a good team to work for you and you can keep them productive. Just something to consider! Good luck!
 
Maybe set up some Solidworks training though your VAR, as an immediate start? I don't have much specific advice, but would encourage you to take them up on the offer.

Maybe they do overload you to the point of burnout, but you'll walk away with a lot of training and experience relative to the time you've put in.

And if you can make it work you'll be jumping ahead a decade in responsibility (and pay?) level.
 
Maybe set up some Solidworks training though your VAR, as an immediate start? I don't have much specific advice, but would encourage you to take them up on the offer.
I was just thinking about this too... Solidworks training first or after Mill training?
Maybe they do overload you to the point of burnout, but you'll walk away with a lot of training and experience relative to the time you've put in.

And if you can make it work you'll be jumping ahead a decade in responsibility (and pay?) level.
I don't want to get over loaded with too much, but I am currently making it work, on both pay and workload. Just when it's "programming" heavy, I struggle. And I still haven't even approached the lathe...

On a pay scale,.. What is a "fair" range to expect? Still hourly, I don't want salary.
 
The machinist who quit:- is he a good guy and did you get on with him well?
If so, perhaps try and get him back as you've taken the worry (programming) away from him?
And he knows the work and the machines?
We do get along well, unfortunately he's already moved on to Lockheed/Martin.
Ref your learning - IDK but is the Haas training a good course? Do they do different levels, so you could do a basic (everyone learns something on a basic course because everyone does things differently), then straight after a more advanced course?
Tailored to suit your specific controls and also work type?
I am still working on the details, but it seems like I would need to complete the Haas Operators Class (on both Mill and Lathe) and then they offer more "advanced" classes from there. Again, on both mill and lathe.
College although good, is spread over a long (12 month) period. You need to start running now.
Yeah, I am not super fond of the idea either, I did that years ago for my Degree in Welding and Jointing Technology, And Blueprinting.
 
Hi smokeshow:
As I understand your situation, you have decent familiarity with the controls for every machine in the shop...is that correct?
You also have decent familiarity with the basics of G Code and how it works...enough to look at a program and tell what the cutter is going to do in a general sense.

What you do not have is the ability to do advanced programing with subroutines and macros and all that other weird and wonderful stuff that gets thrown about on this forum and others. (but you don't really need all that shit to be a useful programmer in most circumstances)
You're also weak in CAD and in CAM but you've sniffed around the edges and know just enough to be dangerous.

The first thing to do is to identify which of your current shortcomings is the one to give you the best return on your investment RIGHT NOW if you fix it.

In my opinion, you need to learn the CAD and CAM software that is available in your shop currently...the stuff those other guys were using to write their programs.

Once you can write good, useful code, you will be gratified to know a lot of your stress and problems will go away.
You can keep an awful lot of machine tools running if you can supply them with solid code...everything else like brute labour can be hired for.
An awful lot of small shop owners find themselves in exactly the same boat...you can do this!

So tell us first of all, which software are you using in your shop?
Get the bosses to school you on the CAM software first of all; learn how to program for your lathe, learn how to program for your mill.

Having some formal training on your CAM software will generate the most immediately useful benefit both to you and to your company, and should be a slam dunk to sell to your boss.

Resist the temptation to be sent away to CAM school...ideally what you need is a trainer to come in to your facility and mentor you over your shoulder on YOUR parts...no point in learning how to program a 5 axis impeller quite yet.

Whatever the boss has to promise the VAR (that's Value Added Reseller) to get a trainer into your place is what he needs to be willing to promise: a new software sale is a pretty good way to start if you have to be devious to get a trainer in.
But if you can avoid the deception of an empty promise, obviously far better to just hire the guy, even if it's just for a moonlight gig to get you up to speed.

So find out what software your company has been using, who the local trainer is and have your boss reach out to them.
Block out quality time, tell your boss you intend to be productive while you train: programming the shop's parts and not some stupid Mastercam exercise you'll never use.

Tell your boss upfront not to expect blisteringly fast productivity at first...you need stress free space to absorb all the new information, but you know you'll get there, and he just has to be a bit patient.

The waterjet the brake and the shear will be a slam dunk for you if you figure out the lathe and the mill.

Cheers

Marcus
Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining
 
Marcus...

You are correct, I am dangerous enough to make each machine go. Some I have a better grasp of the machine and edits required. On the mill, I struggle with editing some parts that aren't drawn with the top left being X/Y/Z zero. I can walk myself through it eventually. I just don't know why you wouldn't use top left as zero. There may be value there, but again I don't know why you would not use it. (Just an example of some of the issues that I have)

Solidworks is where I start to stumble. Solidworks CAM is where I really have a hard time applying what I want vs what the computer gives me. (Probably just my ignorance with the software) i.e. I want to use a ½ EM to make a 2" pocket and to rough in the part. But the software chooses 4 different tools and tool changes. I don't want to waste time with multiple tool changes and we may or may not have the other tools that it calls out. Again, all of this may be easy fixes, but I am currently self taught and on the job, while doing my other duties and I wasn't expecting to be in this position/role that I am currently in. I am wanting to learn more and embrace my new role, just wanted advice on best direction and thoughts/ ideas/input/suggestions on how best to achieve this.

All of which I was not disappointed. Everyone has been helpful and provided multiple viewpoints and ideas.

I think that we all agree, training for each issue is the best solution.
Now, I just have to work out the details between me and my company/ boss.


Thank you to everyone who was willing to take time out of their lives to try and help!
 
Marcus...

You are correct, I am dangerous enough to make each machine go. Some I have a better grasp of the machine and edits required. On the mill, I struggle with editing some parts that aren't drawn with the top left being X/Y/Z zero. I can walk myself through it eventually. I just don't know why you wouldn't use top left as zero. There may be value there, but again I don't know why you would not use it.

If you have double vises the fixed datum in the back station is the front of the part. That is a basic example. Moving the datum in a CAM set-up usually has zero effect past re-generate the set-up.
 
If you have double vises the fixed datum in the back station is the front of the part. That is a basic example. Moving the datum in a CAM set-up usually has zero effect past re-generate the set-up.

We currently only have single vices, but now that you mention it, that does make some sense, because the "fixed/known" position is different.
 
Has anyone else on here used Solidworks CAM? I have no idea how good it is or ease of use, I've only used it for modeling and extracting dimensions for some manual jobs
 
Typical......Boss has you overloaded and knows it. He stopped short of what you really need.....MORE HELP! IMO, that is a direction of burnout. To be really proficient, you need to stay focused on one sector or task. Being the 3D guy, programmer, machinist, shop lead, etc, etc, is too much.

And he wants to get you schooling that will be fit in where? On your time?

IDK, maybe it just rubs me the wrong way as I was taken advantage of in ever job I ever had. They find out you can do stuff and stack it on.

Your post rubs me the wrong way. When the opportunity door opens you take it. My guess is whenever one opened for you, you slammed it shut and whined and complained.
This is a great opportunity for this guy IMO, and he deserves it for going above and beyond and was recognized for it.

To the author of this post, you will always run into people trying to rain on your parade. Ignore them.
My advice would be to go to night school on your time and your bosses dime and learn the programming language. Your future is bright because you have initiative, take the bull by the horns, sure your time is valuable, so fill it with valuable (FREE) knowledge and you will be on the road to earning more for you and your family.
Best of luck on whatever you decide.
 








 
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