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Converting 1/4-20unc thread to 1/4-20 whitworth

dzarren

Plastic
Joined
Jul 30, 2019
I bought a set of collets for a very small machine i have, but for some reason, the drawbar uses 1/4-20 whitworth thread. A regular 1/4-20 UNC does not fit more than a few turns of the threads into the collets, so i cannot just directly use a 1/4-20 bolt.


Is there a fast way to modify a 1/4-20 bolt into 1/4-20 whitworth? I thought id just be able to run a 1/4-20 whitworth die over a 1/4-20 bolt, and this would remove the material that is the difference between the threadforms. I thought this would work, since the 55 degree thread form should have less metal, and the die should cut into the 1/4-20 UNC bolt somewhat. But this was not the case, perhaps the die i have is worn, but i can freely thread a 1/4-20 UNC bolt thru my 1/4-20 whitworth die. In fact it kind of feels loose in there, which makes no sense to me, i would expect it only to be loose the other way around, if i were to put a whitworth bolt, into a UNC nut for instance.


Of course i could turn the dang thing myself, but due to clearance/reach issues, i would far prefer the end of the bolt to have a hex socket, and this is not a feature i can readily make. In fact right now i dont even have access to a lathe that can thread.


I thought it would be as easy as just chasing the UNC bolt with the whitworth die, and the 5 degrees of extra material would be removed or chased off by the whitworth die.
Does that fact that this did not happen indicate that my die is worn out? it is from an old set from 1986, but its a complete whitworth set i have lying around.

Thank you.
 
A UNC bolt should fit into a BSW nut but the fit is loose. You have it backwards, a bsw bolt won't fit a UNC nut. If the UNC bolt doesn't fit the thread, what you have is different than what you think you have. Dave
 
You might have a BA 0 thread which is very close to 1/4 -20 but a bit smaller as I recall. Smiths speedo/tachs on M/C used 0BA on the mounting studs.
 
Something does not quite make sense here. If the 1/4-20 UNC bolt goes in a few threads but then jams, that seems to point to the thread form being loose enough to fit but the pitch being wrong. But you say they are both 20 TPI.

What do you base the collet's thread being 1/4-20 Whitworth? Do you have a Whitworth bolt that fits? Or a tap? Do you have the drawbar and can see/measure the thread there? Or is the collet marked?

OR, could the thread perhaps be something else, like metric? M6 x 1 or perhaps M6 x 1.25? This last one is very close as 20 TPI = a metric 1.27 pitch.

I would coat that 1/2-20 bolt with DyKem, screw it in, wiggle it about a bit, and then see where the interference is. If the contact areas switch from one thread flank to the other, then you have a different pitch. If the contact is always at the top or bottom of the thread, then it could be the thread form (Unified 60° or Whitworth 55° or even something else).



I bought a set of collets for a very small machine i have, but for some reason, the drawbar uses 1/4-20 whitworth thread. A regular 1/4-20 UNC does not fit more than a few turns of the threads into the collets, so i cannot just directly use a 1/4-20 bolt.


Is there a fast way to modify a 1/4-20 bolt into 1/4-20 whitworth? I thought id just be able to run a 1/4-20 whitworth die over a 1/4-20 bolt, and this would remove the material that is the difference between the threadforms. I thought this would work, since the 55 degree thread form should have less metal, and the die should cut into the 1/4-20 UNC bolt somewhat. But this was not the case, perhaps the die i have is worn, but i can freely thread a 1/4-20 UNC bolt thru my 1/4-20 whitworth die. In fact it kind of feels loose in there, which makes no sense to me, i would expect it only to be loose the other way around, if i were to put a whitworth bolt, into a UNC nut for instance.


Of course i could turn the dang thing myself, but due to clearance/reach issues, i would far prefer the end of the bolt to have a hex socket, and this is not a feature i can readily make. In fact right now i dont even have access to a lathe that can thread.


I thought it would be as easy as just chasing the UNC bolt with the whitworth die, and the 5 degrees of extra material would be removed or chased off by the whitworth die.
Does that fact that this did not happen indicate that my die is worn out? it is from an old set from 1986, but its a complete whitworth set i have lying around.

Thank you.
 
A regular 1/4-20 UNC does not fit more than a few turns of the threads into the collets
This tells me that both are not 20tpi. One of them has a different pitch.
Are you positive that one of them isn't an M6 x 1 thread?
 
It will be interesting to see if the thread is BA 0 or 6mm 1. My English machines with Whitworth threads never have Metric unless modified. The changegears and settings on my lathe are the same for BA 0 and metric 1.0. Dave
 
BA 0 and M6x1 have the same OD and pitch. BA has 47.5* included angle and rounded crest and root. M6 is 60* included and flats at crest and root.
Whitworth has a 55* included angle.
 
Just looking at the profiles of the two threads. UNF has a flat on top with straight side. The other has a rounded profile.
Run a file along the thread grooves to round over the peaks. Might work if the peaks of the UNF are not the same height.
The job done by hand would probably look good but the in-exactness of the hand work will show up if the threads are supposed
to be self-sealing. A sloppy fit because 60 degrees != 55.
 








 
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