Bore out a wheel?

I just received a package in the mail from Australia today, containing a wheel hub and shroud for the RIGHT-HAND side of my cylindrical grinder. Here's a photo from a 1960's sales brochure:



Now here's the catch... This hub takes grinding wheels that are 200mm (8") diameter, 10-16mm thick (3/8-5/8") and with a 60mm center hole (slightly less than 2 3/8"). It's that last thing that's the problem -- the hole size. I can't find those for sale anywhere, and for what I'd want (aluminium oxide, 10mm and 16mm wheel in 46K and 60K) a special order would cost a fortune.

My question: for 15 Euro I can buy a 60mm diamond-coated hole saw for concrete and stone. Is it OK for me to use this to bore out a standard 32mm or 51mm wheel? Or is there a better approach?

If it had to be I would see if I could do it using a dresser diamant
Turn the wheel and dress the hole to size
On a old lathe perhaps
The hole saw will give you little controle of the size

Peter

try here. Grinding Wheels | Abrasiflex Pty Ltd

or here

see if you can find a link to a catalogue or email them and ask for one.

Contact Us | Saint-Gobain In Australia

Products | Saint-Gobain Abrasives

i think the catalogue is on this page to download norton bonded wheels

Brands | Saint-Gobain Abrasives

Oh a while back i gave you a lead on mounting method.
how did you go with reform about getting the bonding powder ? did you get a price and part no for it?
it was for bonding wheels on the face

Peter is right that you may not have great control of size and in question as to how many wheels you can resize with the hole saw. But a hole can lined with something if too big and diamond finished if too small. The hole saw method could work on a drill press. Likely I would run it wet just to keep down the dust.

Bruce, below is an outfit that used to be here in the Detroit area. When working at the big shop it was often my task to take wheels here to have them speed tested and altered as needed. The owner Bill Match would mount the wheel on a rotating spindle and most often with a disk about 3” in diameter pushed against the rotating abrasive wheel to crush the wheel to the desired shape or size. I asked about the disk and he said it was not hard and that this method was less costly than using a diamond. Based on what I have witnessed I would guess that your method should work, also dressing the wheel ID with a diamond and grinding the ID with a diamond wheel.
First ring-test the wheel noting the sound and then re ring-test after the resizing. Method should be to hold the wheel in a way that would not put stress on a high grit. I likely would set a pad of thick card paper, two business cards or cut of a 1/16” paint stick under the wheel and under the clamp with the pad and clamp perhaps having 2” surface area, and evenly pressured, with perhaps <30 lb pressure at each pad.

Very likely there is a surplus wheel with an 8” hole and near your OD size going into the dumpster if you could find that source… Might you make a special wheel mount for some standard wheel?
Yes, we would like some photos or your project.
Grinding Wheel Shaping, Mach-B Grinding Wheel Shaping & Resizing

Thanks for the helpful comments!

Peter -- yes, I could start with a 51mm wheel and bore out 9mm on the lathe. But the ways and bearings on my lathe are pristine, and I would like to keep them that way. So I would rather find another approach.

Street -- thanks for the catalog pages. I could not find any 60mm ID wheels there. On mounting the ID wheel, I just made a threaded mounting arbor and used that. Photos are in my thread. I was not able to locate the special red glue.

Buck -- I'm with you, that if the hole is slightly too big I can always use a strip of shim stock to reduce it. Better too big than too small. I could do this on a drill press "underwater", just submerging the entire wheel in an oil-change pan full of water.

I've written to a local place in Germany, Bötzower Schleifwerkzeuge GmbH, who have provided me with one-off grinding wheels in the past. Maybe they are set up to enlarge the holes.

It would be good if your wheel vendor could tell you of another customer who uses "The bore that you need" Id wheel.
Back in my day I was often asked to test wheels for Bay state, Norton, Clipper and other wheel makers because i did a lot of grinding and would give a honest test report. mostly for green and diamond wheels. don’t know anybody not. But the I could have asked "who uses what wheel" and they would have told me.

The shop got free wheels that way. And often the vendor would take the wheel engineer out for a free lunch.

just sent reform service a email to find out details and price about the glue. see how i go.

michiganbuck said:

It would be good if your wheel vendor could tell you of another customer who uses an 8" Id wheel.

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Wrong size: I need a 200mm (8") OD / 60mm ( 2 5/8") ID wheel, thickness 10-16mm.

michiganbuck said:

I could have asked "who uses what wheel" and they would have told me.

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If Bötzower Schleifwerkzeuge is set up to make 60mm wheel bores, I'll ask them who else makes use of those.

Cheers,
Bruce

Can you find a 3" ID wheel and make a spacer?

Old lathe I said
You could do it on your grinder itself
That is more protected from the dust
You need to dress on it anyhow
Mount the diamond on the ID grinding attachment
The stone on the workpiece head

Peter

Buck, good idea, a 76.2mm (3") wheel plus spacer might work. Need to see at what diameter the hub supports/squeezes the wheel. As long as that's outside 76.2mm it would work.

Peter, OK, fair enough, an old lathe. Mine is from 1965, but not yet old enough for this work. And I don't have another. Yes, I thought about doing the ID on the grinder itself. Problem is the swing of the workhead is 200mm diameter, and I lowered it 0.5mm when I rescraped the geometry. So it would be tight. So I'm going to keep looking for another solution first.

50% of the original hub contact should be plenty...with the blotter being under the holding portion.

michiganbuck said:

Can you find a 3" ID wheel and make a spacer?

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I just measured, that will work fine. The support flange for the wheel has an ID of 80mm and an OD of 105mm, which is outside of the wheel ID (76.2mm). So the flange will have complete contact with the wheel blotter.

Should I turn the spacer from plastic, aluminium or steel? Sloppy or snug fit? I guess the spacer shouldn't be rattling around in there, on the other hand if it expands from heat I don't want it to crack the wheel.

[I just had a look. Hard to find these in 200mm diameter, 250 seems to be the smallest size. Need to find someone who uses these and throws them away when they get down to 200mm.]

Another reiteration....

Well over fifty years ago - while working in the GAGE department at P&WA, I strolled across the walkway and visited briefly with a guy that did nothing all day but modify huge grinding wheels for that department - in an old clunk of a huge lathe.

His "cutting" tool was a stick of 1018 steel

I'll emphasize that this was at one of the premier jet engine makers' plants - who OBVIOUSLY thought is was a good thing to do.

spacer from plastic, aluminum, steel or brass all fine/OK. I used to make them about .002- .003 lose fit to the hub and to the wheel ID exact size to -.001.

QT:[and throws them away when they get down to 200mm] Or just willing to sell a few at that OD.

likely you and everybody knows this, to tram a part to straight between centers you hand wheel rub and note dial at head end , whell rum and note dial at tail end. set dial at half and swing table to just part rub the wheel. beats setting up an indicator sometimes.

johnoder said:

Well over fifty years ago - while working in the GAGE department at P&WA, I strolled across the walkway ...

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Were you around PWA when the single-crystal turbines and turbine blades were being developed? That's a technology that I find amazing, like science fiction, but it's absolutely reality, in every modern high-efficiency jet engine.

ballen said:

Were you around PWA when the single-crystal turbines and turbine blades were being developed? That's a technology that I find amazing, like science fiction, but it's absolutely reality, in every modern high-efficiency jet engine.

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I think I was WAY before. Graduated from four year apprenticeship August 1968

johnoder said:

I think I was WAY before. Graduated from four year apprenticeship August 1968

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Single Crystal Turbine Blade Named ASME’s 265th Landmark - ASME

"The single crystal turbine blade was developed in the early 1960s at Pratt & Whitney’s Advanced Materials Research and Development Laboratory (AMRDL) by a team led by Maurice “Bud” Shank and Frank VerSnyder, who were attempting to develop a stronger, more heat-resistant blade for use in jet engines. The turbine blades traditionally used in jet engines were composed of nickel-based superalloys, which had a crystalline structure with grain boundaries — weakened areas that were susceptible to cracks and fractures. The single crystal turbine blade invented by Shank and VerSnyder’s team had no crystalline boundaries, resulting in greater resistance to fracture and corrosion as well as vastly improved creep performance than nickel alloy blades."

Problem solved!

Problem solved.

A very friendly German company, Bötzower Schleifwerkzeuge GmbH, will sell me 200 x 10 x 60 and 200 x 16 x 60 aluminium oxide wheels in quantity one for 15 and 17 Euros respectively. These are not stock items but apparently they are already set up for boring out 32/51mm disks to 60mm.

Clearly they kept us nobodies in the dark

You also have to factor in the huge number of people working there just in East Hartford. Seems impossible but the figure 40,000 was circulated

ballen said:

Single Crystal Turbine Blade Named ASME’s 265th Landmark - ASME

"The single crystal turbine blade was developed in the early 1960s at Pratt & Whitney’s Advanced Materials Research and Development Laboratory (AMRDL) by a team led by Maurice “Bud” Shank and Frank VerSnyder, who were attempting to develop a stronger, more heat-resistant blade for use in jet engines. The turbine blades traditionally used in jet engines were composed of nickel-based superalloys, which had a crystalline structure with grain boundaries — weakened areas that were susceptible to cracks and fractures. The single crystal turbine blade invented by Shank and VerSnyder’s team had no crystalline boundaries, resulting in greater resistance to fracture and corrosion as well as vastly improved creep performance than nickel alloy blades."

Click to expand...