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Boyar Schultz 612 -Spindle Bearing Replacment

bradjacob

Titanium
Joined
Nov 18, 2008
Location
Easton, PA
Hey guys.

I recently bought a Boyar Schultz 612 surface grinder for $100 (very good deal). I took it apart fully and gave it a thorough cleaning. I made a 6 part video series if anyone is interested in seeing that (lookup BasementShopGuy on YouTube).

So when I put it all back together it worked really nice and solid. Only thing is that the spindle bearings are really loud. They make a whine.... Sound.

I've read one The horror stories here, about replacing spindle bearings and I wanted to know if there was any success stories that any of the members might be willing to share?

I'd like to know the steps involved to pull out the old bearings (safely). Would anyone know the part numbers and dealer info for the replacement bearings?

I figured if I could restore a bunch of South Bend lathes and a Bridgeport and replace all the bearings throughout, I might try to tackle this too. I want to at least try before sending it out and having it done by a company who rebuilds spindles. I understand it's tricky and you can't cheap out. Environment also needs to be super clean.

I just need need some procedural info on disassembly and the partno for bearings.

So.... Anyone ever do this?
 
Can't help you with and advice on your spindle but might have a couple of questions for you.
I picked up a Boyar Schultz deal about like you did....free except that it cost $125 for a guy to deliver it. Mine is a bit newer than your's but maybe not in quit as good of condition.

Looks like in your video you might have replaced the way covers behind the saddle along with the lead screw covers.....if so, where did you find the material?
I also need to replace the flexible coupling between the motor and spindle...feels like mine is probably gone...lots of slack.
Do you have a good source for Boyar Schultz parts?

My grinder has enough way wear that it doesn't grind real flat over all the chuck. Fine for most small stuff and probably not worth rebuilding unless I want to teach myself how to do way scraping.

Good luck
 
I have one also. 250 here. BradJacob grinder looks to be in better shape than most. Mind did not grind flat either. However I just finished scraping it. I am working on the mag chuck now. I replaced my way covers with shower pan rubber membrane bought at home depot. Cheap and tough.

Wish I could help with the bearings but cannot.
 
I also need to replace the flexible coupling between the motor and spindle...feels like mine is probably gone...lots of slack.
Do you have a good source for Boyar Schultz parts?

I had one of these maybe twenty years ago, which needed the coupling "spider". IIRC, it was a standard Lovejoy part. If it was run much after the rubber spider blew up, likely the cast iron parts of the coupling need replacement also, in which case it's no big deal, just buy parts that fit the shafts.

Mine also needed spindle bearings, but as I recall, it was no big deal... there was an outfit that still supplied Boyar Schultz parts... at that time. It seems to me, however, that I've tried to look this up for someone here before, and they were gone without a trace.

I'll look and see what I have in my files tomorrow.

Dennis
 
Here is what I have left in my files. In 1996 we purchased new bearings and a new rack and pinion for the table from:

[h=1]FEDERAL-BRYANT MACHINERY CO[/h] 17 E UNIVERSITY DR

ARLINGTON HEIGHTS, IL 60004-1801


(847) 253-1900

Unfortunately, Google mostly brings up references to an action against them by the Illinois Dept. of Revenue over taxes, so I have a bad feeling they are gone.

My notes have the following part numbers:

36-120 Front Bearing
36-13B Rear Bearing
17511-2 Spider (for coupling)

These unfortunately look like B-S part numbers, rather than the actual bearing manufacturer numbers.

The whole deal was worth $250, back in '96. There is also a note that at the rear there is a "pre-load assembly" consisting of two heavy washers and a spring, which must be in place.

Which reminds me of something that was posted here in the past; on these grinders one was not supposed to side wheel grind with the back of the wheel (as in working to a shoulder) because outward pressure on the wheel could compress the spring and cause the bearings to lose their pre-load momentarily. I think that same post mentioned the possibility of the pre-load spring being stuck. I suppose it couldn't hurt to bolt a piece of steel on with the spindle nut and use it to pull the spindle outward, then gently let it go back and see if the bearings and such won't seat themselves properly. I've never don this, but it might be worth a try.

I also have a very poor copy of a sectional view of the spindle. I'll try to scan and post a copy tonight.

Dennis
 
Poked around a little and found this site:

Boyar Schultz Corp. - Publication Reprints - Boyar Schultz 6-12 Surface Grinder Manual | VintageMachinery.org

My spindle drawing is no better that what is on that site, only difference is my drawing shows TWO front bearings just behind the spindle end cap. None of these drawings show numbers other than the B-S part numbers, so it looks like the only way to find bearings is to disassemble the spindle and try to cross reference whatever numbers are on the bearings.

Dennis
 
My suggestion.
Get it out and find the nearest fit, if not exact make a cartridge around the new bearing and fit with locate like 3784 iirc.
200 N/Sq mm == 10 metric tons of pressure or force rating in the axial direction..
And the load is mostly radial.

?? I'm always willing to why not
 
Thanks everyone for your help.

DC6:
In my videos, you'll see the part no. for the spider that sits in between the two halves of the LoveJoy coupling. I forget the part no. offhand.
 
Bradjacob,
I just rebuilt a 6X12 too...great little SG. I too was a little nervous about replacing the bearing. I did check with a company about rebuilding the spindle and once they gave me a quote, it was an quite an easy decision. Ill post a photo in a few minutes of the tools that I made to remove the spindle on my machine.
 
Bradjacob,
Here is the photo of the tools that I made to remove the spindle. The spindle clamp just allowed me to hold spindle as I removed the preload nut from the other end. Other items in photo were for pressing off/on bearings.
Just looked at some of your videos....man I sure wish I had when I was rebuilding mine. Your machine is lots cleaner than mine. Mine was literally salvaged from a junk yard....whoever got rid of it was not real careful as they dumped it as hand wheels were all "jack up" (BENT). I ended up making all new shafts for the downed and table feeds. The machine itself was actually used very little. The spindle bearing were noisy and it turned out that the grease had just set up and somewhat dried out...could have reused the bearing but went ahead and replaced them anyway. I got the bearings on Ebay. Can look up numbers if you need them. No real issues. PM me if you want to talk.
Regards,
Archie
 

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The numbers for the bearings are in this thread:
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...indle-how-know-when-new-bearings-need-279032/

Here's a web page from someone who replaced the spindle bearing on a DoAll surface grinder. Good photos and information.
Benchtest.Com - Workshop - DoAll D624-8 Surface Grinder

If you do replace your bearings, please write it up or do detailed videos. Mine are noisy too. If lucky, all I'd have to do is clean and grease the bearings, but I'm hesitant to even open the spindle on my Boyar Schultz 612.
 
For everyone's information...
I have an older 612 Boyar Shultz
with the belt drive spindle
and my spindle bearings are loose
balls and races, just like a bicycle
head stem bearings. All I had to do
was wash my balls are re-pack with
grease.

--Doozer
 
For low precision spindles and motor drives, i.e. wood lathe, bench sander/grinder, and drill press. Disassembling the spindle for washing and re-greasing bearings, is great inexpensive fix. Where for a lathe, mill, or precision grinder, I would leave it or outright replace them.

The bearings in question are in a gritty environment, and the balls don't wear evenly. Judging by the old bearings from my grinder, the grease is black from foreign grit, and there is a sattin finish on both inner outer races as well as a belt line on the equator of the balls. Should the ball's positing shift while cleaning, you will have egg shaped balls causing vibration and accelerated wear.
 
I never ran it before hand.
I bought it used and took it all apart
to clean spotlessly and paint.
I should have used Kluber grease
(because of it's purity) but I was
in a hurry and used #2 wheel bearing
grease (lithium). Bearing fill was 50%.
The lock tab on the Wiggins nut ended up
one notch tighter than where it had been.
It grinds fine and dandy.
One odd thing I did, was upgrade from the
V-belt and pulleys to a tooth timing belt
and pulleys. Reason was because I happened
to have the exact size belt and respective
pulley on hand in my stash of stuff.
And I am an engineer and like things to be
better than factory. It makes a little
whine compared to a V-belt, but overall I
like it.
IMG_0008.jpg


--Doozer
 
First post on PM for me but hope this helps someone out. I looked and looked for some info on how to tear down a Boyar Shultz 612 Surface Grinder Spindle. Mine was making a lot of noise and since I only paid $120 for it I figured I got what I paid for. Took the whole thing apart to clean the 40 plus years of grinding dust from it and just had to take the spindle apart. So here is the picture of what it looks like inside and the bearings I found inside. Mine has a Barden 205 SS on the front and what looks like a Barden 204 SS on the back. The SS is not stamped very well but it is definitely not a 204 H as I had read in another thread. My grinder is serial number 7030 so it is very possible that mine is just too early or too late....

Cheers,
Mike Ritchey
Atlanta, GA
 

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For everyone's information...
< snippage >
All I had to do was wash my balls are re-pack with grease.
--Doozer

Must. Try. To resist... Can't. Maintain...

:eek: :rolleyes5: :skep:

Next you'll tell us that you go to bars where the guys offer to push your stool in...

:D:D:D

And I am an engineer and like things to be better than factory.
--Doozer

I'm not an engineer, but do have to agree. I try to leave things better than how I got them when forced to open them up and change them.
 








 
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