Grinding 4140 with Diamond
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    Default Grinding 4140 with Diamond

    I want to grind lower lug on 1911 pistol barrel 4140. Looking for surface finish, Area is about 5/16" wide X 3/8" length. One end of the 5/16" drops off, the other end a shoulder less than .1 high with 1/16 radius in corner.
    Therefor a 6" wheel at least 3/8" wide with 1/16" radius on one end. Radius not critical as long as less than .100"
    CBN? How do I dress the radius? I have a few grinders. 2 surface grinders and 3 tool and cutter grinders. But they are for my use, I do not do grinding work.

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    Freehand with an abrasive stick. The abrasive stick could be a dead alox stone, it's not picky. This is assuming you are using a resin bond wheel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidScott View Post
    Freehand with an abrasive stick. The abrasive stick could be a dead alox stone, it's not picky. This is assuming you are using a resin bond wheel.
    Agree, and a stub of carbide (that will get hot), a roller abrasive wheel dresser, broken diamond wheel, broken harder green wheel.

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    Grinding steel with a diamond wheel is not recommended. Diamond, being a form of carbon, reacts at high temperature with iron and degrades rapidly.

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    What wheel will be best? I do have intent to spray weld (hot sprayed with Carbide/nickel powder) I do have a drill grinder, tap and endmill also by Darex that has CBN wheels. However new barrels may not be sprayed.
    Dead Alox, is there a brand name of can I search for Dead Alox?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Froneck View Post
    Dead Alox, is there a brand name of can I search for Dead Alox?
    We are talking about a piece of broken grinding wheel or bench stone. The small broken parts are perfect for shaping the corner on a resin bond grinding wheel. Whatever you use keep it steady as you grind the wheel to keep the corner as true as possible.

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    Am I correct in assuming Alox = aluminum oxide?

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    Yes and sic is silicon carbide. Guess I have been on a knife forum too much.

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    Think twice before deciding to remove the metal under power. Unless you need to remove a lot, you're probably better off doing a 1911 lug with hand tools. Otherwise, even with some experience, you'll probably get to buy another barrel throwing it on a grinder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9finger View Post
    Think twice before deciding to remove the metal under power. Unless you need to remove a lot, you're probably better off doing a 1911 lug with hand tools. Otherwise, even with some experience, you'll probably get to buy another barrel throwing it on a grinder.
    What is wrong with a v-notched grinding vice or v-block exactly? I am sure the OP isn't planning on just plopping the barrel down on the chuck.

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    I take extra caution grinding with CBN wheels because they act harder than most AO wheels. I always try to come in/touch on the grind side, not the climb side. (Yes also do that with any wheel)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazzert View Post
    What is wrong with a v-notched grinding vice or v-block exactly? I am sure the OP isn't planning on just plopping the barrel down on the chuck.
    Nothing wrong, itís just that 1911ís are a unique beast when it comes to fitting. If you need to remove more metal than is feasible than what can be done by hand efficiently, then youíre probably making it from scratch or itís a pretty bad prefit. There is so much variance in all the components that your setup time will usually exceed the time in which you couldíve done it by hand, fitting as you go. Hand-fitted is a marketing term almost everywhere but the 1911 world, because there are so many variables. Itís a rewarding accomplishment when you finish a masterpiece, whether youíre doing it by hand or otherwise. Iím just throwing out another option based on my experience, worth less than the bandwidth used to post it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9finger View Post
    Think twice before deciding to remove the metal under power. Unless you need to remove a lot, you're probably better off doing a 1911 lug with hand tools. Otherwise, even with some experience, you'll probably get to buy another barrel throwing it on a grinder.
    Not my first 1911, built many and a few for friends. For those of you that know competition shooting I'm NRA Master, My son is High Master. My son is ranked one of the top ten best pistol shooter in the USA. Trust me I know what I'm doing with the 1911! What I want is better than hand fitting! I have hand fitted using diamond hone. I have a Deckel Jig Bore with Jig grinding head. 2 Moore Jig Borers, B&S surface grinder and tool and cutter grinder as well as a few other grinders purchased for doing 1911 work which is my hobby! I'm far beyond building what many gunsmiths can't do! I currently have in my shop a friends target 1911 built by someone considered one of the best yet this one is the third one I'm doing for him, the other 2 were also done by 2 other top names! And no I don't build for just anyone! Nor do I make a living doing gunsmithing! Just to note that I have 6 lathes, 3 milling machines that are far better than Bridgeport, a CNC Bridgeport, HBM, 2 optical comparators, 3 toolmakers microscopes and more machinery to numerous to mention.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Froneck View Post
    Not my first 1911, built many and a few for friends. For those of you that know competition shooting I'm NRA Master, My son is High Master. My son is ranked one of the top ten best pistol shooter in the USA. Trust me I know what I'm doing with the 1911! What I want is better than hand fitting! I have hand fitted using diamond hone. I have a Deckel Jig Bore with Jig grinding head. 2 Moore Jig Borers, B&S surface grinder and tool and cutter grinder as well as a few other grinders purchased for doing 1911 work which is my hobby! I'm far beyond building what many gunsmiths can't do! I currently have in my shop a friends target 1911 built by someone considered one of the best yet this one is the third one I'm doing for him, the other 2 were also done by 2 other top names! And no I don't build for just anyone! Nor do I make a living doing gunsmithing! Just to note that I have 6 lathes, 3 milling machines that are far better than Bridgeport, a CNC Bridgeport, HBM, 2 optical comparators, 3 toolmakers microscopes and more machinery to numerous to mention.
    High master is no joke. I tried and wasnít good enough. The only life goal I failed was that as a step towards Presidents 100. Props to him.

    I assumed (wrongly so) that it was someone unfamiliar with the tedious nature of building a 1911 to what few people can appreciate, looking for a shortcut. In that case, rock on with it. I for one run machines a lot as well, and kind of enjoy going back to the basics of hand work (not that you wonít still have hand work involved).


    After a couple hundred 1911ís countless bolt guns, etc....I really really want to do a hi-power, and machine the frame and slide from scratch. After all, John Moses Browning himself said he should have never designed the 1911 and that the superior hi-power shouldíve been first. Iíve got it on my schedule for June of 2341.

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    CBN is not diamond but almost as hard. It is best used for grinding harder metals.. does not break down as easy as aluminum oxide that is about 4 times not as hard.. it is best used with a coolant, not uncommon to use an oil as coolant. it has a high tendency to burn if used dry and runs hot with a coolant. not uncommon to cost 4 times the price of an AO wheel the same size. At a time they were more expensive than diamond-perhaps still are.
    Sound like you have a nice shop. *I have a form dresser that you make a template (by hand or machine) and then dress the grinding wheel off the template. Forgot the name so will have to go out to the shop and take a look. Likely not us/need it as I'm mostly retired.

    A 60 or finer AO wheel may be that better choice.

    *Here is a handy hand held dresser you should order tomorrow. You let the wheel spin on the wheel but don't let it run wide open by holding at angle or breaking it with your thumb and it dresses the wheel to shape and true.
    Old Used Tools,Cracker Jack Jr. Grinding Wheel Dressing Tool,Desmond.Ohio,Exc. | eBay

    This is also a good deal for shaping AO wheels.
    Norton Norbide Grinding Wheel Dressing Stick - 6 pieces | eBay

    I have a ww2 high power

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9finger View Post
    High master is no joke. I tried and wasn’t good enough. The only life goal I failed was that as a step towards Presidents 100. Props to him.

    I assumed (wrongly so) that it was someone unfamiliar with the tedious nature of building a 1911 to what few people can appreciate, looking for a shortcut. In that case, rock on with it. I for one run machines a lot as well, and kind of enjoy going back to the basics of hand work (not that you won’t still have hand work involved).


    After a couple hundred 1911’s countless bolt guns, etc....I really really want to do a hi-power, and machine the frame and slide from scratch. After all, John Moses Browning himself said he should have never designed the 1911 and that the superior hi-power should’ve been first. I’ve got it on my schedule for June of 2341.
    Thanks!I see you know about Precision Pistol! 1911 is one of the best guns ever built! I have the Presidents 100 and Distinguished Medal in Pistol My son is 2650 shooter with both hands! Won The National Match with service pistol 2 times, Has never won Presidents 100 but has been in the top five shooter very many times! Came in 2nd NRA National Match Match for the last 3 years in a row. Won Bianchi Cup last year and came in 2nd this year by 1X! Was member of Maylaigh Cup team over 10 times. Would out shoot me when he was 16 and shot his first match at Perry when he was 10 years old! Has Jr. record 2634. Has set Bianchi Cup Metalic record first time perfect score and Won open is all 3 divisions after 4th year shooting the event.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Froneck View Post
    Thanks!I see you know about Precision Pistol! 1911 is one of the best guns ever built! I have the Presidents 100 and Distinguished Medal in Pistol My son is 2650 shooter with both hands! Won The National Match with service pistol 2 times, Has never won Presidents 100 but has been in the top five shooter very many times! Came in 2nd NRA National Match Match for the last 3 years in a row. Won Bianchi Cup last year and came in 2nd this year by 1X! Was member of Maylaigh Cup team over 10 times. Would out shoot me when he was 16 and shot his first match at Perry when he was 10 years old! Has Jr. record 2634. Has set Bianchi Cup Metalic record first time perfect score and Won open is all 3 divisions after 4th year shooting the event.
    Geeeeze! Thatís another level of skill there. I took a pause from competing for a vacation in Sadr City, but came home with a GSW in my right arm and back/neck broken in 6 places. I competed in a couple sniper comps after that including ISC, but placed bottom of the barrel. Iím 100% certain that even if I didnít pick up some good excuses, Iíd have never made it to that level, so focused on the design and building aspect.

    What got me in to building custom 1911ís was a guy at a range with a $3k Wilson trash talking my bone stock G19. Made a bet that whoever shot better walked off with the otherís gun. I figured I had him beat on skill....got home and and tore it down and found that most of that $3k was name, not workmanship. I knew I could do better, but didnít want to do it for money, just personal satisfaction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    CBN is not diamond but almost as hard. It is best used for grinding harder metals.. does not break down as easy as aluminum oxide that is about 4 times not as hard.. it is best used with a coolant, not uncommon to use an oil as coolant. it has a high tendency to burn if used dry and runs hot with a coolant. not uncommon to cost 4 times the price of an AO wheel the same size. At a time they were more expensive than diamond-perhaps still are.
    Sound like you have a nice shop. *I have a form dresser that you make a template (by hand or machine) and then dress the grinding wheel off the template. Forgot the name so will have to go out to the shop and take a look. Likely not us/need it as I'm mostly retired.

    A 60 or finer AO wheel may be that better choice.

    *Here is a handy hand held dresser you should order tomorrow. You let the wheel spin on the wheel but don't let it run wide open by holding at angle or breaking it with your thumb and it dresses the wheel to shape and true.
    Old Used Tools,Cracker Jack Jr. Grinding Wheel Dressing Tool,Desmond.Ohio,Exc. | eBay

    This is also a good deal for shaping AO wheels.
    Norton Norbide Grinding Wheel Dressing Stick - 6 pieces | eBay

    I have a ww2 high power
    Hi Power is good Pistol but it's 9mm. Need .45 to shoot in the .45 match. Center Fire match it can be used but shooting .45 for both matches is better. I have a Feinwerkbau AW93 .22, I removed the grips, made aluminum adapter and attached 1911 grips. My son is shooting a Hammerli 208 that was modified and looks more like a 1911.
    I looked at the Jack Jr. Will that accurately dress the wheel? I have a 6x6" magnetic compound sine chuck by Suburban and made a fixture to hold the barrel. So I want the wheel perfectly parallel
    to the table. A couple of Kart barrels that were tested and shoot under 1" group at 50 yards. I want to set them in new frames. I also have a few 80% frames sold to me by top manufacture that does not sell unfinished frames. Have a few more tested barrels I want to fit in them some day. One thatI built for my son 20 years ago has lower lug spray welded with carbide powder. I diamond stoned it using a fixture that has the stone on ball bearings not on flat metal. I want the lock-up on the lower lug to be flat and smoooooth, angle created by the sine chuck. I'm also thinking of service hard chroming the lower lug, purchased the kit from Caswell.

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    What got me in to building custom 1911’s was a guy at a range with a $3k Wilson trash talking my bone stock G19. Made a bet that whoever shot better walked off with the other’s gun. I figured I had him beat on skill....got home and and tore it down and found that most of that $3k was name, not workmanship. I knew I could do better, but didn’t want to do it for money, just personal satisfaction.[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, Ive seen a lot of high priced junk! Build guns with a hobby lathe and one of those mills made from a drill press! I look at YouTube from time to time when a friend asks what I think of the video, I have a good laugh at what some are telling others to do! What got me building 1911s is as a shooter trying to get a 1911 to shoot accurately and taking it to supposedly top gunsmiths, paying the money and it not doing what I asked to have done. After a while seeing what kind of machinery they had knew I could do better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Froneck View Post
    What got me in to building custom 1911’s was a guy at a range with a $3k Wilson trash talking my bone stock G19. Made a bet that whoever shot better walked off with the other’s gun. I figured I had him beat on skill....got home and and tore it down and found that most of that $3k was name, not workmanship. I knew I could do better, but didn’t want to do it for money, just personal satisfaction.
    Yeah, Ive seen a lot of high priced junk! Build guns with a hobby lathe and one of those mills made from a drill press! I look at YouTube from time to time when a friend asks what I think of the video, I have a good laugh at what some are telling others to do! What got me building 1911s is as a shooter trying to get a 1911 to shoot accurately and taking it to supposedly top gunsmiths, paying the money and it not doing what I asked to have done. After a while seeing what kind of machinery they had knew I could do better.[/QUOTE]

    Pretty sure weíve crossed paths somewhere, or at least your son and I.


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