Harbots of Leicester Surface Grinder

Hi,

Does anyone own one of these or have any information on this Harbots surface grinder ? The Harbots name & Logo appear on a removable panel on the front of the base so maybe its rebadged ?

The excellent site Lathes.co.uk has a a page on a different and more sophisticated Harbots model but my new acquisition does not seem to share any similarities with the one pictured below.

I understand from the previous owner that the adapters / flanges are 'standard J&S' but having had a quick look at this there appears to be variation in the J&S ones.

The ways are in good condtion & the spindle OK I just want to gather any info I can. Only got it home last night (thats not my workshop).

Would anyone like to take a guess on the correct oil for the spindle (probably plain bearing) ?

Thanks

Tony

Thanks Richard knowing Tony's site pretty well I look there first but that's not the one. Perhaps mine's an earlier model.

I'm in the process of cleaning /assessing this machine and have come up against a problem - I have removed the LH spindle nut but the wheel adapter does not have an internal thread - I was expecting to have to make a puller to remove the adapter. I have tried very gently pulling on the wheel, no tapping or levering for fear of damaging the bearings but it did not budge.



I could make a pin spanner and remove the RH (I think) threaded nut and grinding wheel ( that will be discarded) I might then be able to replace the RH nut and use eg a hub puller on the resulting flange but is there a better way ? I was told by the seller that the hub is are standard J&S 540 but perhaps this one was shop made hence the lack of the internal thread ?


All help appreciated


Tony

Tray said:

I could make a pin spanner and remove the RH (I think) threaded nut and grinding wheel (that will be discarded) I might then be able to replace the RH nut and use eg a hub puller on the resulting flange but is there a better way?

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I don't think there is a better way, so you should do it as you describe above. It's not worth cutting corners: if you damage the spindle, the spindle bearings, or the taper, that's very bad. Worth making a custom puller to get this hub off.

I was told by the seller that the hub is are standard J&S 540 but perhaps this one was shop made hence the lack of the internal thread?

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I have about fifteen different J&S 540 hubs. All of them have internal puller threads. So that's consistent with "shop made".

Oddly enough, my J&S puller works on the external thread. If the wheel is too thick for the hub, there won't be any thread showing...

Having said that, you won't harm the bearings by tapping firmly on the back of the arbour with a 1 lb ball pein hammer. If the taper is the same as the J&S 15° one (it will be if it't the same as a 540!), it'll come off fairly easily with a few taps. Later on, you can look for/modify/make hubs with accessible puller threads.

I guess the eyes are bad but damn, can anybody come up with a better company name ? "Harlots of Leicester" ... prefection

It was not uncommon to slip a 15*(or so) wedge behind the wheel adapter and give a mild whack. no Im not telling you to do so but I have done that.
Could use a soft wedge if trying to be more careful. I had a brass wedge at one time but don't know where it has gone. ..could use a wedge on both sides, could put a little heat on the adapter..

Sucess !

I removed the hub flange nut - LH thread, removed the wheel and replaced the nut & screwed it on to a light stop at the end of the thread so it didn't wobble.
Used a small 3 legged hub puller it came off with a bang (must be those harlots).....

Yes I think the hub is a homer - no balance weights.

Taper; I will now be able to measure it, good news is that its in fine condtion no galls etc.

Hub width; Approx 3/8 wheel on there and yes all but 1/2 of a thread was used up.

My first job will be grinding cast iron, I will be fitting a 1 HP 3 phase VFD run motor ( the orignal was 380-440 V in Y and I could not get to the star point) I think the spindle will be running at approx 2800 rpm as the pulleys are approx 1:1. Can someone please recommend, wheel width (may need another hub) and wheel type as a starting point.

Thanks to all

Harlots .. really made me chuckle !

3/4 x 7" wheel is good but it likes to run about 3400 or so. 46k is a good all around wheel. Good idea to have a 1/2 x 7" 80-I to J (or about) for making a inside corner. Dressed wheels are common to be changed on the same one adapter and then dressed. fancy wheels, radius and diamond wheels often have their own adapter.

Likely the biggest error on a SG is running into the unexpected high place on a part..if you are new to the SG. Second error is letting work get hot, next is flying parts from not being blocked high on the go-side.

Don't be so quick to grind the chuck. Get the feel for the machine ans sharpen you talents first.

looks like a fine grinder.

Thanks Michiganbuck,

I've only used a J&S 540 under supervision so I'm a newbie. I really appreaciate the advice and kind words.

I'll need to do an accurate check on the pulley dia's to get a true RPM, I can run the VFD rated motor up to 70Hz so could get it up to 3400 or make another pulley, there's plently of adjustment on the belt tension.

I'll definitely need another adapter.

Yes I hope she will turn out fine it doesn't owe me much & the mag chuck is good. The ways seem OK, the feed screws / nuts are OK & they are simple V form so could be replaced if needed. The shafts on the axes have a combination of plain bearings, deep groove bearings and roller thrust races. I've seen Brinelling on one thrust race so at least some will need to be replaced. Looks like the USA is a cheaper source for imperial bearings. The helical gear on the traverse is fairly worn and is integral to the shaft but I'll wait to see how it is in operation, at least it comes out easily if I decide it needs attention.

I am tearing the whole thing down as its very dirty, under lubed and the last paint job was pooly executed. When I went to drain the spindle oil it was completely empty; perhaps over the 15 years it stood idle it leaked away but I don't think so as there's no evidence at either end of the spindle, I suppose if it was a kerosene /oil blend some might have evaporated. Judging by the sound its ball raced, I think I will fill it with oil and run it before making a decision on whether to rebuild it as I have not done a spindle that really mattered before.

QT:[perhaps over the 15 years it stood idle it leaked away ]
Yet another reason to not fire up a setting long spindle with not being careful.

likely I wold fill it with spindle oil / hand turn it many times and then fire up the spindle.
Got to go so will get back to this later

The reason I said I would fill it and try it is because I have see long setting dry spindles filled and then run good for many yeas..I have seen spindles rebuilt and go fudge in 6 months.
A dry spindle brought up to speed being dry is likely a shot spindle.

any spindle setting for a year should be slow turned many times before fire up.
Setting over night it should have a half (or so) jog start IMHO.

EmanuelGoldstein said:

I guess the eyes are bad but damn, can anybody come up with a better company name ? "Harlots of Leicester" ... prefection

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I was not going to say anything, but now that you broke the ice....every time I saw this thread harlots dancing around a surface grinder came to mind

michiganbuck said:

The reason I said I would fill it and try it is because I have see long setting dry spindles filled and then run good for many yeas..I have seen spindles rebuilt and go fudge in 6 months.
A dry spindle brought up to speed being dry is likely a shot spindle.

any spindle setting for a year should be slow turned many times before fire up.
Setting over night it should have a half (or so) jog start IMHO.

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That sounds like good advice and I will follow it. I made a new sight glass (from a piece of PET blister pack) today as the old one was nearly opaque. There was a bit of sludge behind it. I think you will tell me that I should not try to flush the spindle for fear of dislodging crap into the bearings and perhaps leaving residue that might destroy the new oil ?


I can get Mobil Velocite in all of the usual variants. What grade would you suggest ?

Many thanks