Harig Grind All #1 Disassembly
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    Default Harig Grind All #1 Disassembly

    Hello and Happy New Year to all.

    Can any of you offer advise as to how to disassembly a Harig Grindall #1? I recently purchased a used unit that looks like new from the outside and although the TIR is + - .0002, it seems to be a bit stiff when rotate the handle slowly. I can feel what seems to be flat spots every so often (hopefully the balls). I don't want to damage anything so any help would be much appreciated.

    Thank you,

    Steve

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    From memory. The insides consists of two round plates with a chamfer on each plate so that when assembled the chamfers meet and form a 90 degree V. The balls ride in this V and are preloaded against a V in the inside of the base. The two plates are screwed and doweled together to form the V. There is no adjustment for preload except to grind material off of the face of one or both plates. If the V's are damaged they will also need to be ground. My advice is to let it be unless your parts are not acceptable. Harig offers a refurbish service but is not cheap.
    Gene

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    Quote Originally Posted by easymike299 View Post
    From memory. The insides consists of two round plates with a chamfer on each plate so that when assembled the chamfers meet and form a 90 degree V. The balls ride in this V and are preloaded against a V in the inside of the base. The two plates are screwed and doweled together to form the V. There is no adjustment for preload except to grind material off of the face of one or both plates. If the V's are damaged they will also need to be ground. My advice is to let it be unless your parts are not acceptable. Harig offers a refurbish service but is not cheap.
    Gene
    Gene,

    Thanks for the insight, it is helpful. Since I have never owned one of these (new to the grinding world), I am not really sure what it should feel like when turning the handle. Can you tell me if there should be some resistance, meaning it won't spin like a bicycle pedal.

    Regards,

    Steve

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    Yes, there should be resistance. If it spins freely it's an indication that it's been used for OD grinding and the preload is gone. A Grind All #1 is meant to be used for indexing.
    Gene

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    Quote Originally Posted by easymike299 View Post
    Yes, there should be resistance. If it spins freely it's an indication that it's been used for OD grinding and the preload is gone. A Grind All #1 is meant to be used for indexing.
    Gene
    I agree with that..

    For OD grinding I have wrapped masking or Scots tape around to keep abrasive dust out and turned by hand being careful not to let the wheel take control of rotation.
    Also have made a spindle device with just a 1" reamer bushing with a close fitting shaft and a end nut to make a simple grind all. with being home made and low cost it is handy and acts like a simple work head.

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    I volunteer at a Tool Thrift Shop that sells donations to assist a charity that tries to keep seniors in their homes.

    We received a Harig Grind-All in rough cosmetic shape as a donation. No number, just Grind-All. I've cleaned it up and it seems to be in good condition. The internal construction is a ground bore and rotor that are still in excellent shape, and an index plate. When I reassembled it, I had to put the rotor in the freezer to fit it back in the bore due to the sensitivity of the alignment. The fit is in such good shape that the weight of the crank handle makes it rotate slowly when lubricated with light spindle oil.(10 seconds between 2 and 4 o'clock)

    It appears to be missing one of the adjustable stops, but the clamp for the v-block is still there. The crank handle has been welded. The v block is an excellent fit in the sliding ways.

    Does anyone have a manual for this? I know this is kind of a silly question, but what's it worth?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheels17 View Post
    I volunteer at a Tool Thrift Shop that sells donations to assist a charity that tries to keep seniors in their homes.

    We received a Harig Grind-All in rough cosmetic shape as a donation. No number, just Grind-All. I've cleaned it up and it seems to be in good condition. The internal construction is a ground bore and rotor that are still in excellent shape, and an index plate. When I reassembled it, I had to put the rotor in the freezer to fit it back in the bore due to the sensitivity of the alignment. The fit is in such good shape that the weight of the crank handle makes it rotate slowly when lubricated with light spindle oil.(10 seconds between 2 and 4 o'clock)

    It appears to be missing one of the adjustable stops, but the clamp for the v-block is still there. The crank handle has been welded. The v block is an excellent fit in the sliding ways.

    Does anyone have a manual for this? I know this is kind of a silly question, but what's it worth?
    A picture would help.

    Tom

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    It should rotate smoothly with a very slight resistance. It's not supposed to spin up with a flick of a finger but it should rotate easily and smoothly with no flat/drag sections. Anything more than slight resistance would fatigue the hand of the user during constant rotation. Not to contradict any previous posting but they're used for OD grinding every single day in die shops across the country like most other brand spin/index fixtures. The indexing capability is an added design bonus over some v-block fixtures that only have adjustable clamping to limit rotation. If it's not consistently smooth in rotation with very little effort then there's something wrong with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    I agree with that..

    For OD grinding I have wrapped masking or Scots tape around to keep abrasive dust out and turned by hand being careful not to let the wheel take control of rotation.
    Also have made a spindle device with just a 1" reamer bushing with a close fitting shaft and a end nut to make a simple grind all. with being home made and low cost it is handy and acts like a simple work head.
    Understood, but confused with the idea that this tool is really not for OD grinding. I am pretty sure that Harig sells a motor adapter and tail stock for these units. Also, can you tell me why would OD grinding would put the unit at any more risk for grinding dust than any other grinding operation? I am not being facetious, but isn't it called a grind all for a reason?

    Thank you..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Fixit View Post
    Understood, but confused with the idea that this tool is really not for OD grinding. I am pretty sure that Harig sells a motor adapter and tail stock for these units. Also, can you tell me why would OD grinding would put the unit at any more risk for grinding dust than any other grinding operation? I am not being facetious, but isn't it called a grind all for a reason?

    Thank you..
    I agree it is used for OD grinding I and have used them for that, often by hand crank and with a belt running at about 300 rpm and less. But it is not a production device to run like an everyday, one and two shifts use because it is not sealed up like an actual grinding machine work head and the close proximity of work/sparks to the unit. Light weight and handiness make it best suited for one-ups and few-ups...My recommendation was when making a lot of sparks have some concern to give it a little more protection if you can...

    A spin index has much the same problem as it to has poor protection form sparks and grit getting into the works, but with care and willing to toss it when wore out can make an OK work head.

    cincinnati tc grinder work head photo - Google Search

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Fixit View Post
    Understood, but confused with the idea that this tool is really not for OD grinding. I am pretty sure that Harig sells a motor adapter and tail stock for these units. Also, can you tell me why would OD grinding would put the unit at any more risk for grinding dust than any other grinding operation? I am not being facetious, but isn't it called a grind all for a reason?

    Thank you..
    See post #4
    Gene

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    I agree it is used for OD grinding I and have used them for that, often by hand crank and with a belt running at about 300 rpm and less. But it is not a production device to run like an everyday, one and two shifts use because it is not sealed up like an actual grinding machine work head and the close proximity of work/sparks to the unit. Light weight and handiness make it best suited for one-ups and few-ups...My recommendation was when making a lot of sparks have some concern to give it a little more protection if you can...

    A spin index has much the same problem as it to has poor protection form sparks and grit getting into the works, but with care and willing to toss it when wore out can make an OK work head.

    cincinnati tc grinder work head photo - Google Search
    Makes sense. Mine is for use in a home shop with a Harig 612 Now, I just need to learn how to use it..

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    Frist off is to visualize the direction the wheel will make it turn, so you might have a firm grip to not let the wheel drive it to a high and dangerous RPM.For most jobs you turn into the wheel direction so you might turn to the right with wheel turning right..

    Next with ready to grind and the work center line set at center line of wheel or(better) the part center just a tad to the left of wheel center (so it might not catch and climb ) , down feed a parked wheel to just rub the part, up feed perhaps .010 and with the wheel still parked turn the part with slow down feed to just touch to turning part and set zero there. Then up- travel perhaps .010 and come down very slowly to make first spark.

    With a thinned grinding wheel or a machine saw on mill or lathe you can use the Grind All's 24 index to make an index for all your other machines.

    Going across you set a machine stop so to keep the Grind All from getting nicked up with bumping into a wheel or cutter..

    You can true-up the hand crank shoulder and then make an index for that place..a notched index there can be used with a spring finger to to make indexing much faster.

    You can grind couple slits in a reamer bushing .. the with that held in the Grind All V block and use that for a chuck to hold that one size. Yes with a set screw collar.

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    IMO, if it turns with some resistance and isn't gritty, don't mess with it. I picked up a used one many years ago and it's a super handy thing. Good for necking down taps to get a bit more depth, or putting precise angles on small parts. The indexing is crazy accurate. I'd also like a good scan of a manual, as there doesn't seem to be one online anywhere.

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    While the #1 okay for light OD and certainly great for necking something down this version is much more suited to production OD grinding.
    5C Compatible, 24 Increment, Horizontal Spin �9149873 - MSC
    We have two with air collet closers and have replaced the original o-ring drive with toothed belt and servo so we can grind flutes with it.

    Downside of it is only 24 indexes in it's standard configuration and no offsetting vee-block which you use to make punches and cams with controlled and tangent radii between sides.
    The #1 is more universal, can do so many things. The linked to better for OD work like shaping 1000 dental burrs in a afternoon with a form wheel or making a lot of tiny reamers.

    Big agreement that if it spins good and does not show chatter or more importantly repeatable flats that I'd not go inside.
    It should be smooth, these were made not only to index but to grind clean radii to very tight tolerances. If this feature is not needed then some "bumps" would be fine.

    I no longer have one but before the days of CNC my carbide insert periphery grinding machines used a cam for each insert size and radius.
    These were the "cat's ass" for producing such master cams.
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by easymike299 View Post
    See post #4
    Gene
    Thanks Gene, missed that one..

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    Had a few requests for the manual that I got from Harig. Not very clear, but legible. Here is the link..

    Dropbox - HARIG Grind All No.1 instructions.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by Conrad Hoffman View Post
    IMO, if it turns with some resistance and isn't gritty, don't mess with it. I picked up a used one many years ago and it's a super handy thing. Good for necking down taps to get a bit more depth, or putting precise angles on small parts. The indexing is crazy accurate. I'd also like a good scan of a manual, as there doesn't seem to be one online anywhere.
    I have decided to leave it alone. It isn't gritty and I checked it out on the surface plate using a tenths test indicator with a known good .500 rod. It is within .0003, more accuracy than I need for my purposes. It really looks like new on the outside with absolutely no rust, pitting or scratches in the paint. Got it for $650.00 on that well known auction site and it came with a 30 return if not satisfied. Knowing what they cost new,I am satisfied.

    Just in case you missed the post with the link to the manual, here you go..

    Dropbox - HARIG Grind All No.1 instructions.pdf

    Thanks,

    Steve

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    Certainly not a good choice for all day production grinding for reasons already stated by others. Even when motorized it's still not something I'd use for production use, too many other purpose built fixtures that do a better job. My experience with them has been in stamping die applications for creating/re-purposing punches, perforators, and tooling alterations. Those were mostly limited to 10 or less in quantity. With die sharpening/repair you might have several different body OD's to accommodate or putting a crown on the face of a rectangular punch which required different radii, all possible via the adjustable V-block. None of these conditions were "production" even though it might be used all day on several different dies. Great for cams too as previously mentioned. Michigan Buck has given some good advice on use, so have others in NOT dis-assembling unless something is really a show stopper. Do NOT allow the wheel to spin the spin/indexer when the grinding wheel makes contact, hand on handle (while rotating it) is best. Some means of a dust shield is good prevention, no sense letting "lapping compound" in there. Be aware of vibration inducing chatter when grinding small OD work with large overhang to OD ratio (like perforators/pins), it will make for poor finish/tolerance on workpiece and require re-dressing the wheel. Vibration can be controlled but that's another topic. For low quantity work it should be fine for OD's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AD Design View Post
    Certainly not a good choice for all day production grinding for reasons already stated by others. Even when motorized it's still not something I'd use for production use, too many other purpose built fixtures that do a better job. My experience with them has been in stamping die applications for creating/re-purposing punches, perforators, and tooling alterations. Those were mostly limited to 10 or less in quantity. With die sharpening/repair you might have several different body OD's to accommodate or putting a crown on the face of a rectangular punch which required different radii, all possible via the adjustable V-block. None of these conditions were "production" even though it might be used all day on several different dies. Great for cams too as previously mentioned. Michigan Buck has given some good advice on use, so have others in NOT dis-assembling unless something is really a show stopper. Do NOT allow the wheel to spin the spin/indexer when the grinding wheel makes contact, hand on handle (while rotating it) is best. Some means of a dust shield is good prevention, no sense letting "lapping compound" in there. Be aware of vibration inducing chatter when grinding small OD work with large overhang to OD ratio (like perforators/pins), it will make for poor finish/tolerance on workpiece and require re-dressing the wheel. Vibration can be controlled but that's another topic. For low quantity work it should be fine for OD's.
    No doubt that there is a lot of great information on this forum.

    Thank you..


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