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Hydraulic hoses for a Jones and Shipman 540 surface grinder

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Diamond
Joined
Sep 25, 2011
Location
Garbsen, Germany
I was grinding a part for a friend yesterday. My J&S 540 is an APR model with automatic downfeed, so we were working on something else while it was grinding, when I saw a big coolant puddle on the floor. It turns out that it was coming from the coolant pump in the tank, which must have a leak where the hose connects to it. The pump was spraying liquid around inside the coolant tank, and some of that liquid was finding its way through to the floor. Quick fix was cutting out a shield from some thin plastic and putting it near the pump to redirect the spray back into the tank. Finished the grinding, was letting the wheel spin to dry out, when I notice another growing puddle on the floor, this time hydraulic oil.

So I pulled off the cover plate to look inside with a flashlight. One of the two main hydraulic lines going vertically from the hydraulic pump in the base to the bottom of the saddle was bleeding through a crack in the top, a few cm below the metal fitting. So I need to replace the hoses (I'll do both at the same time). A pair of new hoses from the UK is 107 Euros + shipping + a wait for delivery. On the other hand, just down the road from me is a company that does hydraulic stuff. I live in an agricultural area and so they are experienced in making up hoses for farm equipment and what not

Can I take them the old hoses and let them make up two new ones? I'm pretty sure the hoses will cost me 15 or 20 Euro each and I'll get them the same day. Or do these J&S grinder hoses have some special materials or design or requirements (flexibility?) which standard hoses can't match?

Cheers,
Bruce
 
Yes you can. They are standard hydraulic hoses. That's how I replaced the ones on my 1400 that were in a similar condition to yours.

Taking the original hoses allows the shop to make the new hoses with the correct length and connectors :)
 
The actual hose isn't the problem, it's the fittings. A stateside common crimped-on fitting would most likely be a JIC style. Your hydraulic shop, being in Europe may not stock this style fitting..more likely DIN or BSP or EOs maybe.

Stuart
 
The actual hose isn't the problem, it's the fittings.

You're right. I took off the hoses today. Here are a few details.

Length tip to tip is 67cm
OD of the rubber hose is 24mm
The fittings are the same on both ends.
At the tip is a 12mm OD 9mm ID steel tube with a integrated ferrule.
This is ferrule is compressed from behind with an M18 x 1.5mm male fitting.

It is very close to a standard 12-L fitting except that there, the tubes with integrated ferrules are backed by female threaded fitting, not a male one.

I'll take it to the pros tomorrow. If these fittings are very unusual, I suppose they can cut off the old hose, and reuse the connectors with some new hose.

[EDIT MONDAY]

I brought the hoses to my local hydraulic place this morning. The guys on the floor said that the fittings were unusual, but since the system operates at around 10 bar, it should be no problem to just cut off the crimped steel band, cut off the hose, and crimp new bands on to the fittings that I have. However their "hose guy" was not there today, so they are going to wait and let him deal with it when he's back tomorrow.

Bruce
 
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Well, I certainly must apologize for my ignorance. Jones & Shipman was born in England so those fitting certainly won't be JIC. The actual pipe thread configuration will be BSP or BSPP but who knows what the fittings themselves will be. Sorry..I just assumed everything was made in the USA...or in China!:D

Stuart
 
The hoses on mine were very hard - not original and fitted with screw tightening hose clamps. I took them to the local hose doctor. He said he could put nice crimped fittings on but would have to do work on the connectors (silver soldering a different hose end onto the threaded end) and really as the pressure is low that hose clamps would be fine. I bought some low pressure hydraulic hose (non-steel braided) rated 300 psi and new hose clamps. The only problem I can see is that the steel braiding would be better stopping rubbing on something wearing through the hose. Im yet to test.
Cheers
Bob
 
Typical Japanese hydraulics use BSP fittings, at least that's what the hydraulic service place I had make numerous hoses for my old Kawaguchi molding press said. I would think Japanese industrial machinery would be common enough in Europe that a well stocked hydraulic shop would have them.

Dennis
 
I thought I would bring this thread to a conclusion.

I brought the hoses to a hydraulic place. They confirmed that the fittings were not standard ones, but said that since they were in good shape and the operating pressure was only 10 bar they could reuse the fittings.

A few days later I picked up the new hoses. They had used DN12 hydraulic hose (1/2" ID, nominally 12mm) with stainless steel hose clamps on top. The hose is rated for 50 bar. They told me it was hard work to get the (barbed) fittings into the new hose, but that they had managed to. Total cost was 20 Euros and a "thank you".

I was too busy in the past weeks to fit the new hoses and test them, but did that today. They work perfectly, no leaks.

Bottom line: if you need to replace the hoses, but the fittings are in good shape, it's quick and inexpensive. Just reuse the fittings with DN12 (1/2") hydraulic hose and hose clamps.

Cheers,
Bruce
 
Hi Stuart,

Unless it's something extremely weird that J&S spec'd to make life difficult for the common man

That is indeed the case for the hose fittings, that are NOT a standard part/design. Which is why I am asking about the other cylinder/piston seals.

Cheers,
Bruce
 
I wanted to add a follow-up to this thread. I recently noticed a "hum" or "buzz" in my machine, which I could feel in the table and in the hydraulic tubes. After some inquiry, I learned that this is because the hoses that I installed (post #9 above) were too "stiff". They were rated for a pressure of 58 bar, but that meant that they did not flex enough to absorb the pressure vibrations that come from the gears in the pump.

The problem was fixed by replacing the hoses with softer, lower-pressure rated hose. I am now using generic fuel/oil NBR hose with 13mm ID, 20mm OD, 10 bar operating, 30 bar burst. I am told that another hose that works well is Semperit TU25, ID 16mm, OD 25mm, 25 bar working pressure, 75 bar burst. (Note that the larger ID is not a typo.)
 
You might also want to update with your hydraulic cylinder seal info too, since you just got into that also. Just in case any future searcher turns up this thread but not the other.
 
You might also want to update with your hydraulic cylinder seal info too, since you just got into that also. Just in case any future searcher turns up this thread but not the other.

Good point.

The Imperial (3/8" piston rods) and Metric versions (10mm piston rods) of the machine use different seals. I can only be certain about the metric version. The modern replacement piston rod seals are polyurethane (PU) with symmetric profile, 10mm ID, 20mm OD, 9mm depth. I ordered a "factory set" of two seals for 60 Euros from the UK, but would have been fine just purchasing standard ones (about 8mm depth) from a local supplier for 2 Euros each. Caveat emptor!
 
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