Jones & Shipman 540 APR from 1986 - need manual for evaluation

Dear Grinder Gurus,

I'm going to have a look at a used Jones & Shipman 540 APR surface grinder from circa 1986. It would be great to have a manual to study first. If someone has scan that they could share with me, please send me a PM, and I'll provide an email address.

In the model number, I think the "P" means up/down powerfeed, and the "A" might mean auto crossfeed return. Is that right? Does anyone know what the "R" is for?

This is the model with a lot of controls mounted to an electrical cabinet hanging off the left-hand-side of the machine. Here is a snapshot. It would be helpful to know what they do.



Cheers,
Bruce

Since no one responded to my message, I decided to post some photos. After seeing these, and a short video of the spindle and feed in operation, I did something that I have never done before: bought the machine without inspecting it myself in person.

I wrote to Andmar UK (who provide service and spare parts) and they responded as follows:

"The APR Means - an electrical driven auto-reversing saddle is the major feature of the 540APR. Cross feed motion can be applied at either continuous or intermittent feed rates, and can be integrated with downfeed applications to offer an automatic grinding cycle. So it Mean Auto Down Feed with Reversing Saddle."

The machine is being shipped and should reach me in a week or two. I would still be grateful for a manual if someone has a scan so I can start looking at it now. The original documentation comes with the grinder.

Here is the overview:


The controls:


Downfeed and magnetic chuck controls:


Grinding wheel and permanent electromagnetic chuck:


The chuck made by SAV is a type that I am not familiar with. You can permanently magnetize it by applying current, after which no current needed to maintain the magnetic field. Then you can permanently UNmagnetize it (and presumably the workpiece as well).

Coolant collection and pump (not sure if this has ever been used):


Grinding spindle motor plate:


Apart from the overall condition and reasonable price, what convinced me to purchase it was the condition of the ways:







As well as the collection of accessories and bits:



Is the gold-colored piece a balancing axle? What's the articulated device at the left?



I'd be happy to learn more about this machine from others here who have one.

Cheers,
Bruce

Ballen ,I think you will be more than happy with your new machine ,J+S grinders are really user friendly and seem to still do a good job when worn out let alone one that appears pristine like the one you have bought ,I have a nice 1400 with A and P but without the R. as well as a 1011 surface grinder and 1310 cylindrical which are pretty tired but still do a good job.

Hi Bruce, I didn't respond because I've only worked on the standard machines.

It looks like you have a balancing spindle. The " Articulated Device " is an adjustable peg spanner for locking rings.

In my opinion you will need a balancing rig for balancing the wheels and arbor on you machine.

" Jones & Shipman " made great little machines, I'd say they were the Ford Fiesta of the surface grinding world. I've had dealing with " And-Mar " before and they're very helpful people.

Regards Tyrone.

I have a 1960's version of it, mine the cross - table feeds all hydraulic, the controls moved into the cabinet on the side due to a change in legislation that in effect banned having electrical controls in the mechanical areas of the machines base.

Due to the permanent oiling the ways will be superb and remain that way for damn near forever with just basic maintenance, there effectifly almost hydrostatic :-) Scrapeing is still clearly visible on mine. Its not so much the constant oil supply, but also the flushing of any crap - grit that seams to work so well unlike a lot of the grinders out there that have little pockets that just fill with oil and grit till your running the ways lubeing em with lapping compound. Before you fill the hydrulic tank up in the base, pull it and clean it out, its large so any crap can settle out, its normall to find 1/2" of grit and swarft too so don't panic! its exactly were its spouse to be - end up settled out in the bottom of the tank!

Gold shaft is the balancing shaft. Gold the cosmoline showing its unused! Dovetail cast bit with the other wheel guard looks like a different base casting for the over the wheel dresser (a really nice thing to have its why i bought my grinder!) Other wheel guard looks like its for a non wheel head dresser machine. though its hard to tell from that angle. Could also be the correct wheel guard for use with the table mounted cylindrical grinding attachment.

Magnet wise, that style was popular for a fair time, just looks small thats all, but then a lot of people put 12 or 14" magnets on these grinders, not full width ones like my 18" one on mine. In all cases the grinders actually have something nearer 19" of travel and nearly 7" across so can easily grind a std 6x18" magnet.

Wheel balance is a some what contencious subject on a grinder this size, if your shooting for the absolute best finishes it can help, but then so does not useing the over head dresser and useing a table mounted one instead. For most grinding, if you take the time to shim the wheel head dresser into near perfection it will pay dividends in the long run, equally most wheels run well enough with out balance for everyday use too!

Im not sure what the articulated bit is, im assuming you mean the green bit with mic dial not the hook spanner Tyrone is refering too? Could be some kinda dresser or some kinda micrometer stop for down feed, J&S made a lot of custom - odd - low qty additions for these grinders over the years and most will fit onto most of them.

Only thing that goes on the J&S grinders is the spindle drive belt and the rubber anti vibration mounts on both the spindle motor mounting and the hydraulic pump mounts, think its the hydraulic oil just gradually kills em. Both need changing every few decades! The hydraulic pump tends to break its suction filter if it spends too long with broken mounts, its just a simple cheap 3/4 BSP 120 mesh suction strainer though, so is cheap to replace. They really are a very very reliable long lived thing though compared to a lot of grinders out there due to there awsome table lube setup!

The last picture looks like the adapter plate for a head mounted diaform or optidress wheel profiling attachment to the left and the two piece guard for same to the right .Never seen the articulated device before but agree it could be a dresser of some kind, overhead maybe?

Sorry, I was away from my computer. Thanks for all of the helpful replies.

Sable: I have read a lot of positive things about these grinders, particularly how robust and nice to use they are. So when I saw one in such good condition at a reasonable price, I didn't want to pass it up.

Tyrone: I've understood that the golden-colored part is a cosmoline coated balancing spindle. What other bits do I need to use it? (I assume a couple of parallel knife-edge supports that it can roll on to find the low point.) By the "articulated part" I had meant the green object with a micrometer adjustment and rotation base, not the hook spanner!

Adama: I think you are right on the money re cosmoline. I think one of the wheel guards is intended for a vacuum dust-removal filter system. Not sure if I will try a shop vac or put the coolant system into operation. Probably the latter: can I throw a plastic cover over everything to try and contain the mist?

I'll definitely clean out everything before putting it into service. Is it easy to remove the bed so I can check that the oil passages are open and to clean everything off? I'll also check the condition of the drive belt and the motor mounts and replace if needed. One of the reasons I wanted to buy this machine was because it seems that parts are still easy to obtain and not astronomically priced.

It seems that the consensus is probably that the articulated bit is some kind of wheel dresser. I'll report back in a couple of weeks when the machine is here and I've had a chance to look over it carefully.

A general question: did J&S also paint the machine in green as shown, or was that an after-purchase modification by the buyer to make it match? Also, why is the coolant collection tank painted red (you can see the dripped paint)? I am always cautious of repainted machines because this is meant to hide wear and is usually badly done. However the controls of this machine and the ways look good enough that I am not concerned about too much wear.

The current owners told me that it was used from time to time to grind some 2mm diameter EDM electrodes. They had intended it for a project that never materialised. (Sounds like a used car driven only by grandma on sundays to go to church.)

Oh yeah, is there some kind of special puller to remove the wheels? Or is there a jack nut on the arbor that forces it off (I am hoping that is what the articulated spanner is for).

I would still be grateful for a scan of the manual, apparently there is one with the machine. Meanwhile could someone at least post a foot-print diagram for the machine, so I can figure out what I need to get rid of to make space for it? I'd also like to know how it should be lifted. I have seen pictures/diagrams for lifting earlier versions of the machine, using the eye-bolts at the top of the column together with two lifting dogs in the front of the machine near the saddle. But this version seems to lack the lifting dogs.

Cheers,
Bruce

When I was using a 540 regularly a good while ago we had a " U " shaped piece of cast iron with two half round hardened bars fastened to the top of " U " legs for balancing the wheels. It could have been home made, it worked ok but you had to level the stand up first.

I always balanced the wheels and I was getting finishes then that I've never got on the other, bigger machines I've worked on subsequently. I've still got the parallels etc that I made in the old days and they're like glass. The machine was only a year or two old then though.

Later on I worked on balancing stands that had hardened knife edged wheels to run the balance shaft on and they were easier to use.

The standard J&S paint colour was a really nice blue/ grey that I never saw on any other makers machines.

Regards Tyrone

Yeah J&S st6andard paint was there blue colour, like tyrone ssays, kinda is blue - grey and not too dark. I have seen a lot of green machines over the years online though, weather its people repainting them or not i have no idea, but greens common thats for sure.

Mist wise coolant won't be as bad as it seams, that said i run dry (no coolant in my shop everythings dry or hand applied oil) and use dust extraction, std vacs probaly a bad idea though, i use a proper dust collector designed for hot sparks, a typical shop vac may be ok, but a vac with a paper bag is akin to a blast furnace and theres plenty of sparks heading its way too!

I have some lovely Knife edge old paper shear blades, but have never got around to making a balancing stand, despite have 3 of thoes arbours :-)

Thinking about it, that dresser like bit in the draw - box with the wheels may not be even J&L it just does not have there style to it, looks more myford grinder like style.

AKA lifting the table, just disconnect the ram rods and it lifts straight off, but based on the pic you won't find much under it, do to the constant oil flow its self cleaning! Give it about a dozen strokes and you will see the oil on the bottom of the V kinda like you do in that pic. You also see it build up in the 2 little catch pans at each end of the table the bits with the plugs in the bottom in your pics. Machine does need to be level or the oil flows out the lowest catch pan, nice and level it drains back to the sump! Found that out the hard way!

I have a manual but its not digital, i don't think it would be much use as it does not cover any of the controls you have on that, pretty much all the older J&S 540's had just 2 start stop buttons, one for the spindle motor one for the hydrulics!

I would have bought that too just based on the pics. It looks in beautiful condition.

Here are some images showing a typical older J&S wheel balancing set-up. You could buy the top part only to put on your own work bench, or get the whole cabinet. The cabinet was used to store the level, mandrels etc.

The lever on the side lowers/raises the protectors, so the straight edges are only exposed when you are balancing a wheel.

So you lower the protectors, then place the special level on the straight edges, adjust the base until the bubble is centred, remove the level and start your wheel balancing.

BTW, I think there should be a screw-on extractor for removing the wheel from the grinding
spindle.

One of my J + S grinders is painted cream and I was told that it was an option to order the machines in corporate colours if so desired ,you will soon tell if yours is original paint as stuff applied on top tends to fall off in my experience. Later J + S grinders are painted cream rather than blue but I am not sure when they changed over.

Peter. said:

I would have bought that too just based on the pics. It looks in beautiful condition.

Click to expand...

Me too, that machine looks to be in great condition. I think that's original factory paint also.

I have seen those balancing stands having seen the photos. That's the blue grey paint I associate with J&S. The stand I worked was definitely home made now I think about it. Having said that it worked ok.


You can't beat having the flood coolant system working for all sorts of reasons. Minimising thermal expansion being only one.

Regards Tyrone.

I can't tell how your grinder should be lifted J&S/Kellenberger/Hardinge should be able to produce a manual that has lifting instructions.

If you feel that you need to re-paint in the original colours, Phoenix Paint have a colour that matches. I might do that on my 1400 after rebuilding it, since it has 'corporate blue' slopped all over it.

If the scraping marks on the ways are continuous along the entire length of the ways, the grinder is probably good. My 1976 machine definitely needs a re-scrape, but a couple of tenths of a thou/5µm is pretty trivial compared with the wear I had to remove on my milling machine.

Coolant is very definitely a good thing, if only because it controls the dust. My home computer server is within 1m of the grinder and the crap that has built up on it's filters on the few times I ran without coolant is scary!

Hi All,

Thanks again, this is really very useful. A helpful member here has
sent me a manual by email which covers my machine, so I can study that while waiting for the machine to show up. It clearly shows that for lifting one should attach to lift bars to the front, attached with bolts provided for this purpose. See photos below.

Tyrone, regarding the balancing stand, I think the gap in my lathe bed
is deep enough for the wheel to clear, and the bed is as level as I can make it with a 0.02 mm/m precision level. If the balancing arbor is long enough I might just be able to use that. Otherwise I'll make
something that I can set on top of that. Having a grinder should make
it easy to flatten the top edges and make them parallel to the base.

Adama, my shop vac has a stainless steel cannister, but you are right:
the sparks getting sucked in will probably melt the hose and/or
damage the filter. So I'd need to fit some kind of cyclone or other
pre-filter to catch the sparks and hot stuff. If I want to go this way, I'm think that I am better off just waiting for the right air cleaner/filter unit to show up for sale.

I'll figure out the dresser bit when I have it in hand. If there are no helpful markings, PM is very very good at identifying obscure tools and tooling: someone here will recognize it.

Given how easy the table is to lift, I'll probably have a look under it to clean, even if it's not really needed. Any idea how much the table weighs?

Peter S, thanks for the help! If one of these balancing stands and the
cabinet showed up nearby at a good price, I probably wouldn't resist!

Sable, I am hoping that the machine was produced in green for the
German market. There was apparently a period when for insurance
reasons (!!!) all machine tools in German industry needed to be green, because it was claimed that this color led to lower rates of accidents. From the photos it doesn't have any of the obvious signs of sloppy repainting: the edges of the name-plates have no green paint on them, the underside of bed-parts matches, there are no peeling sections visible. I just wish that were true of my milling machine, which was originally gray but still has significant patches of green that refuse to fall off.

Tyrone, since the machine has flood coolant, and putting it into use
won't cost me much (a bottle of cooling concentrate) I will certainly try it.

Mark, I've now seen pictures of the lifting recommendations, thanks to
the manual that I received. Here are the relevant snapshots and the
floor plan for others who might need them in the future.







I've got no plans to repaint the grinder, too many other projects in the works. And yes, I do hope that the scraping marks are not worn away in the middle of the ways. From everything I have been told about the hydraulic/hydrostatic ways, I am judging that this is unlikely given the condition of the ends, but it's certainly possible. Fingers crossed! And yes, I read you loud and clear regarding the coolant. I really don't want abrasive dust inside the other machines in my shop!

Cheers,
Bruce

Hi Bruce, in an ideal world you need minimum contact between your balancing arbor and whatever device you choose to use as a balancing stand. I think the ways on a lathe bed will give you too much contact.

I've always had access to proper balancing stands in my career so I've never had to think outside the box on this matter.

I'd like the opinion of other surface grinder guys on this - could you put the balancing spindle between centres in the lathe ? If you held the spindle lightly what results do you think you would you get ?

Regards Tyrone.

Hi Tyrone.

Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Hi Bruce, in an ideal world you need minimum contact between your balancing arbor and whatever device you choose to use as a balancing stand. I think the ways on a lathe bed will give you too much contact.

Click to expand...

Yup, you are probably right. One side is an inverted V way, that should have small contact, but the other side is flat.

I have never tried it, but don't think that putting the wheel between live or dead lathe centers will work well, too much stiction.

Cheers,
Bruce

Hi All,

The seller is getting the machine wrapped up for transport on Friday, and sent me some more photos.

On my request, some cardboard strips have been added to protect the long ways:



Not shown: a block of wood has been clamped between the magnetic chuck and the grinding wheel body above. I think the large silver box must be the controller for the permanent electro-magnetic chuck.



These photos make me feel pretty certain that the paint is original



Not sure what the two "ports" at the back of the big electrical control box are about.

The one part where the paint doesn't quite match is the coolant tank. Is this complete or is there an outer part that is missing? I wonder if that came from a different machine.



The machine is bolted to the pallet, and the seller has promised me that they will supervise the loading and will ensure that it is strapped to the truck with the eye bolts on top.



Cheers,
Bruce

I agree about the coolant tank. It doesn't marry up with the rest of the machine. Looks like they let Stevie Wonder paint it.

Regards Tyrone.

Normally there would be a tray on top of the coolant tank with a rim around it to control the coolant and a hole in the front right hand side to drop used coolant into the right hand top compartment of the tank. They can get lost. They can also get rusty and leak . I have an l shaped channel that I made from square rainwater down-pipe, glued together and bolted to the side of the tank. It works quite well.

As for the paint, synthetic grinding coolant seems to be very good at dissolving oil based paints. So the owners probably repainted the inside of the tank. I was panning to repaint mine, but then I had to use the grinder again and filled the tank up with coolant again...