Jones & Shipman 540 Disassembly Questions

RonRock · Jan 28, 2019

So I'm trying to clean up and repair a couple things that were fouled up on my J&S 540.

Couple questions before I damage things.

How do I get this shaft out? I have removed the set screw and soaked it down with PB Blaster and it still won't budge. I have buggered up the exposed end of the shaft with my pliers, but I can clean that up at this point.

Also how do I remove the large dial and the small Fine Feed dial?

I can see that these have been greased previously. Obviously with the grease zerks. Is grease here correct? Or are the zerks actually for oil like my Bridgeport was designed?

adama · Jan 28, 2019

The Graduated dial outer ring should slide off i belive, then you can get to the screws hidden behind it holding that whole chunk on.
! Parts Listing 10 : Andmar

Click the links and it gives you some exploded views. I do have some more, that webpage use to be a lot more extensive, PM a email address and i will email them over. They will give you a bit more of a clue. But i have never dug that far into mine, simply no need.

What is your fault? With the power rise and fall head it will trip the table out if anything gets to the end of stroke dogs. IE are you sure its broken, not that you simply don't know how it should work?

Yes there oil not grease fittings, grease is generally bad on all machine tools unless specifically called out.

RonRock · Jan 28, 2019

Thank You,

The lever on the upper right side next to the Fine Feed Dial had been cobbled up with a piece of steel bar stock hanging over the edge of the top and a spring between the lever and bar stock holding the lever down. So I began dissembling to find the reason for this obvious hack job. The other lever that goes to the "trip" stops is very stiff, almost stuck in position. That helps explain the hack job. They used a spring to hold the control lever in position and bypassed the "trip" function.

So at this point I need to get the other lever (trip) freed up so that it works as it should. I figure that I should also clean out the grease and inspect the rest of the workings since I have things opened up and still not sure if there is damaged pieces that may have caused or been caused by the hack job.

At this point I can move the Start Trigger and it causes the Trip Lever to work as it should (I think) but only if I manually move the Trip Lever, it is not free to move without help.

Sorry about the nomenclature, I found the actual names of the levers for the last sentence.

Ron

adama · Jan 29, 2019

Poping to look at mine back in a minute!

adama · Jan 29, 2019

Ok

The little levers on mine are held on with tapered pins, goota knock em out from the small end! I hate taper pins, they can be buggers to get moveing!

Ok the trip leaver on mine (blue leaver that goes down to the cross travel stops) is free, its got a spring under the pad cast in the top of it forcing it up and happily bounces up and down when not on the stops on said spring with at a guess about 1lb of force. Its nothing cleaver, just a cast leave and pivots on the shaft on the side of the saddle, if thats stiff you have a problem there, probably just needs its pin pulling out on side of saddle and cleaning.

The little alu leaver on the front simply has a single ratchet tooth that the blue leaver pops a paw into to hold down. Guessing thats whats damaged on yours? Hence why it won't stay engaged.

That said theres spose to be a interlock to the manual table traverse handle (big round handle left hand side) that stops the feed getting engaged, that works by the handle pulls out - pushes in to engage its cog with the table rack, though my interlock is either broken or its not interlocked on these earlier machines maybe?

My feed will sometimes drop out after the first table to and fro, theres clearly something else that trips it, but its normally only when i start up from cold, table will do one forward and back then stop. Its also worth noting its rigged up so it always stops with the table at the far right of the wheel. Once the machines been used for a couple of minutes though it then behaves normally and just goes and goes.

Can't stress enough these are normally pretty reliable machines, i will oftern set the feeds and just come and advance - work pieces as i pass it, i oftern grind hardened baldes the whole length and width of the chuck - machines travel, so i won't stand and watch it at all, just set it going and check on it later.

Unlike yours, mine does not have the powered rise and fall, i know that has a trip system on the columb of the machine, i would assume that would also trip out the table feeds, so may be linked to your issue maybe?

RonRock · Jan 29, 2019

Very good information. I was wondering if there should be a spring under that pad on the Trip Lever. That confirms it for me. I'm pretty confident that if I can get the pin out that holds the Trip Lever, I'll be able to clean the pivot points and get it to work as it should. I'll find a spring for it and hopefully that will work correctly. I can be rid of the cobbled up mess.

I did also find that the Trip switch mechanism on the column was also stuck. I removed the plate with the slide lever and soaked it until it came loose. It now slides and the switch is cleared enough that it will "click" not sure yet if that is actually on/off but likely it is. The parts all still need a good cleaning, but all is free to work as it should. Nothing broken, just needs some TLC.

adama · Jan 30, 2019

Yes, no spring under that pad and the feed would not work, unless yours is different and some how the coulomb trip also has to be out? Like i say, yours has that mine does not, that said thinking about it, even once the wheels vertical motion reaches the stop, its more than possible it will still let you run the feed + cross feed any rate as your still likely to need it.

Spring wise you really don't need much pressure, a small light die spring of the correct length should be plenty, can't get anything in to mesure mine but its not much over 5/16" dia may even be 1/4". Hopefully there will be some broken spring bits in there once you get it off. On mine theres a simple countersunk screw in the middle of the leaver that goes through the pivot shaft, would expect no more complexity than undo that slide the shaft out and its free, though to be fair i don't know if you can pull - remove the blue leaver of if it attaches to other things under the top cover. Really can''t see much under there other than a paw like bit that engages the feed leaver.

RonRock · Feb 4, 2019

OK well it finally warmed up enough to get back in the shop.

I did get the outer ring off. Soaked it several days with penetrating fluid, then used my heat gun to add a little heat. I think the combination softened up the years of crusty stuff that was holding things tight. It finally came off with some gentle prying.

I also got the pin out and the lever off. Everything looks ok here, just a little cleaning and figure out how and where to put a spring under the lever to hold it up .

But in the process of trying to figure out the pin I may have caused an issue, not sure on that need some advice.

On the right side of the machine above the lever stops. There is what seems to be a plug. That plug looks like it is inline with the pin that I was trying to remove. I pulled the plug and it looked like there may have been a set screw inside above the plug. It is underneath the saddle and very hard to see. So I stuck several Allen Wrenches in the hole in an effort to find the right size and remove it. It never felt like I was removing a set screw, but at one point I did here a "ping" like maybe a screw had fallen out. I can not find said screw anywhere around the machine, so am unsure if there is one, or maybe the plug is just a plug to hole oil. The drawings do not seem to show one, but they are not the best drawings either. Here is a couple photos. One shows the right side where I am looking, the other is a shot of the hole where the plug goes. Anybody know if there is supposed to be a set screw in there?

adama · Feb 4, 2019

Ok will go look at mine, so im looking basically upwards in the first pick just behind the blue leaver that engages the feed right, the stop in the pick is the furthest from operator saddle stop and the bit you unscrewed was in the saddle wing for want of a better term.

RonRock · Feb 4, 2019

Yes that is correct. Not an easy place to look. But I do appreciate the effort.

adama · Feb 4, 2019

Ok Looking at mine i have the same 2 pin holes as you do there, thoes pins are directly bellow the end of the table traverse ram. I Just have a blanking hex plug, theres nothing "up" the hole on mine, seams to presumably just be one of the drillings for the oil passages for said table ram. As oil has to flow in and out of said ram its a pretty save bet its not got a check valve or similar there.

RonRock · Feb 4, 2019

Wow! Thank you for that effort. Very hard to see up there.

I can rest easier now. I never felt any pressure like I was removing something, but at one point I did hear a "ping" like I mentioned. So I was concerned. I've had small things seem to blast off once I drop them. They can be found long distances away from where I would think they could possibly bounce or roll. Sometimes the shop just seems to swallow them up never to be seen again.

Now I can clean the grease out, clean everything up and reassemble.

adama · Feb 4, 2019

^ Its why i believe in worm holes and multiple universes! Its the only way it makes sense!

shannonrm0 · Apr 23, 2020

Table feed dropping out

adama said:
Ok

"My feed will sometimes drop out after the first table to and fro, theres clearly something else that trips it, but its normally only when i start up from cold, table will do one forward and back then stop.[/U][/U][/B] Its also worth noting its rigged up so it always stops with the table at the far right of the wheel. Once the machines been used for a couple of minutes though it then behaves normally and just goes and goes."

Hi Adama. Did you ever find out what causes the table feed to trip out? Unlike yours, my 540 will not keep the feed engaged no matter how many times I keep engaging the start lever. The table simply travels left, right, and then stops. I am wondering whether it is an adjustment issue, or a part has worn out. Would appreciate any light you can throw on the issue. Cheers.

shannonrm0 · Apr 24, 2020

shannonrm0 said:
adama said:

Ok

"My feed will sometimes drop out after the first table to and fro, theres clearly something else that trips it, but its normally only when i start up from cold, table will do one forward and back then stop.[/U][/U][/B] Its also worth noting its rigged up so it always stops with the table at the far right of the wheel. Once the machines been used for a couple of minutes though it then behaves normally and just goes and goes."

"Hi Adama. Did you ever find out what causes the table feed to trip out? Unlike yours, my 540 will not keep the feed engaged no matter how many times I keep engaging the start lever. The table simply travels left, right, and then stops. I am wondering whether it is an adjustment issue, or a part has worn out. Would appreciate any light you can throw on the issue. Cheers."

I've just discovered the answer to my own question. Essentially the cross-feed Trip Lever Latch was not quite engaging with the Latch Plate (part of the Start Lever assembly). Once the trip lever latch was adjusted to an appropriate length, the trip lever latch catches the latch plate and holds the start lever down. The table now traverses back and forth nicely. The engagement of the Latch and Latch Plate is hard to see from above, so easily missed. It was not until I took the Valve Gear Cover off that I could see what was going on. Hope this helps someone. Cheers, Richard.

Click to expand...

Search

Largest Manufacturing Technology Community on the Web

Search

Jones & Shipman 540 Disassembly Questions

RonRock

Aluminum

adama

Diamond

RonRock

Aluminum

adama

Diamond

adama

Diamond

RonRock

Aluminum

adama

Diamond

RonRock

Aluminum

adama

Diamond

RonRock

Aluminum

adama

Diamond

RonRock

Aluminum

adama

Diamond

shannonrm0

Plastic

shannonrm0

Plastic

Similar threads