Jones and shipman slide auto lube
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  1. #1
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    Default Jones and shipman slide auto lube

    hi members

    I'm new here and seeking help. I've recently acquired a j&s 540
    the problem i have is the slide-ways have oil poring of of them.
    the hydraulic diagram shows a restriction on the feed to slide-ways lubrication but i have no idea where to find it to adjust it.
    i have turn the pressure regulator right down but still no change. any suggestion would be appreciated.

    ta norman

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    It's a couple of decades since I pulled my 540 apart but I seem to remember a row of brass adjusters adjacent to the pump.

    I'm sure that you appreciate that the normal hydraulic oil is pumped up to the table ways then cascades from the catch trays back to the sump where the contaminates settle out.

    Turning the pressure down is going to adversely affect the reciprocating operation.

    The whole pump and sump assembly slides out of the base if you disconnect the pair of hoses going upwards from it

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    Need to set the pressure reg on the pump to ***psi (edit) should be 100PSI. Adjust the smaller separate brass little Valve to give the oil pump chain a slow drip, a dribble on that will launch oil every were, a drip causes no issues! Before going further it pays to make sure the sumps clean, they tend to fill up with shit, the oil suction strainers clear and most importantly the oil return line and its little filter basket are clean, any of these bad makes a serious mess of over flowed oil!

    Then you adjust the oil flow to the table ways by removing the bolt - plug in the top of the table speed control lever, bellow that is a locking grub screw bellow that is the needle valve, You want just enough to keep the ways damp, no more, it then runs out and down from there to the V ways, of the cross travel. Set right its a great lubrication system and little effort. Its one of the key reasons so many J&S 540's i have encountered show nothing like the way wear despite there age of a lot of lesser grinder.

    DON'T forget it does NOT lubricate all the screws, nuts and rise - fall mechanism, some J&S 540's have auto lube pumps that do some of these spots but not all, on mine there's several locations that still need the attention of a oil can - oil gun.

    You need to get a manual, there's normally plenty on ebay and there pretty dang cheap, as far as i know there is no online digital copy.

    PS welcome to the club, there a nice grinder, at least over here there kinda what bridgpeports are to milling as grinders go, there also pretty damn mechanically reliable. Once through typical age related teething issues, they work a treat for a long time with near zero effort.

    That said, you do want to check the metastatic mounts for both the spindle motor and for the pump frame in the hydrulic sump, both age and fail in time, easy, just sods to get to replace, there plenty cheap enough and you need 7 if doing both spindle motor and pump frame.
    Last edited by adama; 11-08-2018 at 07:51 PM.

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    Hi Adams
    Thanks for the welcome and comprehensive answer. This is where I'm at tank removed and cleaned along with both filters pump mounts replaced. Saw one of your post high lightning the flow adjuster so I investigated even removing spindle and found spring and ball bearing in the bottom but no adjustment.
    The only conclusion is I confusing speed control lever.
    This is the one in the middle to stop start talble left and right Travers.
    Thanks Norman.

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    Sorry im wrong 100 psi at the pump 120 max, my manual is for a circa 1980's machine i have a circa 1969-1970 grinder. I have never needed to adjust so never dug into that leaver. Yes the speed control leaver is the one besides the lever that controls direction - gets knocked by the dogs.

    How old is your machine? It is a 540? because the 1400 is very diffrent when this kinda stuff has come up before.

    Jones & Shipman 540P table lubrication

    Spring and ball sound about right, should then have a grub screw to apply pressure to that spring, then a lock screw, can't find any exploded diagrams. I do believe from memory some grinders also had the flow adjustment in the side of the hydrulic valve block will go have a look at mine in a bit and report back. Think this is something that changed with age. Gotta remember, these were made for a long time, from late 50's through to the 80's and there were some tweeks along the way.

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    Jones & Shipman 540 Grinder Questions

    Check out post 55 by aboard epsolon Seams to be the one im remembering.

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    Yep, check out the above link thats were mine appears to be, looks like that was changed some point in the 1970's the middle of my speed adjustment lever is solid too!

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    Hi Adams
    Mine is definitely a 540 but I think it's an old one.
    It has power rise and fall with down feed.
    No idea of age but still quite tidy.
    It also has plain bearing wheel spindle.
    Hope this helps.

    Thanks Norman

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    Hi adama

    I'm still none the wiser where the restriction arjustments is
    Thanks norman

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    Hi adama
    If yours is solid the machine at my place of work is solid. There must be some adjustment some where.

    Thanks norman

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    Yes there is - must be, i just can't find anything as to were apart from aborad epsilons post and hes been awol for over a year now.

    There is a adjuster under that little domed cap on the top under the direction valve, don't know if thats it or if its hidden further inside the valve block, it must presumably be acessable from the outside as it would need to be adjusted post assembly. Like i say, from what i can gather the only manual i have is for a later machine, they do have it in that lever.

    Andrewmoresons adjusters by the pump is definitely not how mine is, that im certain and im now also certain its not were i thought it was.

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    Yes I agree it must be accessable to adjust post assembly.
    I'll probably take off the valve box tonite if I find out anything I will of course post it.

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    Norman, I've sent you a copy of the manual. If your machine is like mine, the valve hidden in the center of the table reversal level controls the "dwell time" of table turnaround. See step C in section 1.3.1.2 of the manual. The valve hidden in the speed control lever controls the lubrication to the ways. See section 2.2.1.6 of the manual.

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    Hi Ballen
    Thank you but have you emailed the manual. I have no hair left. Such a small problem but such a head ache.

    Norman

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    I sent you an email via the PM interface. Did you check your email?

    [EDIT]

    Resent email and also sent in parallel as PM.
    Last edited by ballen; 11-08-2018 at 02:39 PM.

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    Well after taking the valve block of and a little investigation it appears that there is no adjustment. The restriction is a worm screw about inch and a half long in the oil way feeding the slides.
    This is directly behind valve block and fed of.the exhaust side.
    The size of the worm is approximately 1.2 mm square aperture. At 100 psi I'm not surprised it as allowing a large amount of oil to pass, which suggest something has changed.
    I wrapped a piece of .7 wire into the worm and rebuilt machine. All looks ok now.
    I have Visible oil flow with everything working fine.

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    Hi Ballen
    Thanks very much but can't find it but would like to take a look. Maybe it's just taking a while.
    Cheers

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    Thanks got it. This is gonna be very useful

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    If its any use, i got the approximate build date for mine from the plates on the motors, the fact you have a plane spindle points to pre later 60's as thats when the ball bearing spindles became the norm and oiled plane bearings became a expensive optional item.

    If that manual is the correct one for our older machines would love a copy, because im certain the original Jones and ship man manual i have is for the later machines. It does have a hydraulic circuit diagram, it does show a restrict or off the return side off the hydraulics, that returns to tank through the pump pressure restriction return to tank path.

    Have you looked at the hydraulic hose on the return, one that goes nearest the regulator on the pump if that's collapsed internally which is not unheard of with old hoses that could cause your significantly increased back pressure. Other option is a blockage in the pump outlet - tank return. Because thinning about it, you really don't want any real pressure of oil on the ways, you just want them constantly wetted with oil like you would get with just a few PSI of back pressure on a small tank return line. If you have pressure there, i would go as far as to say you definitely have a issue and the restrict-er flowing too much is just a symptom.

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    Well all checked and no fault found.
    Replaced the pressure side hose. Return side looked a little perished but ok.
    Machine all back together with modified restrictor.
    Have to keep an eye on it. Run for about an hour and no visible drips forming. On slides, where as before there was visible drips waiting to fall.
    Thanks for all your help.


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