Kwik Way Super Speed Valve Facing Machine
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  1. #1
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    Default Kwik Way Super Speed Valve Facing Machine

    What information is available on a very old Kwik Way valve grinding machine (Super Speed Valve Facing Machine) ? I cannot see any model number information - I believe this pre-dates the SV. I'm trying to bring an old unit back to life. Thanks -Pete




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    Default Hi Pete

    By the looks of the picture I think it predates God LOL

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    Yes, it looks like a very old one that uses the small wheels.

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    I have a Sioux of similar age. Although it would be great to have a manual, they are not hard to figure out. Goodson will have the wheels, dressers from MSC or Wholesale Tool. The most critical thing is true-running of the spindle and chuck that hold the valve

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    I just picked up an identical machine and have done some work to get it working. What you have is a Kwik-way Model P. It was made around 1939. Here is the one I just picked up for 150 bucks including the blue point seat grinder set





    The leather belt underneath that drives the valve chuck is 43.5" end to end but is no longer available from Kwik-way (I called them up). I bought a 1/4" hollow tube urethane belt kit from McMaster, cut it to 43.5", and installed the barb link to assemble it. I disassembled the chuck, installed new precision 1/2" ball bearings, cleaned and adjusted all the ways and what not, and the machine grinds great but I have a lot of trouble even w/ the new balls in the chuck getting it to chuck up on center. I get .003" runout about 1" from the chuck both with a valve and with a drill rod. If I rap on the chuck pretty hard with a screw driver plastic handle the runout drops to 0.0005" and it will hold that during and after cutting, until I chuck a new valve and have to rap on it again. Other than have to mess w/ the chuck and indicate every single valve I cut (I won't use this that often) the only other option for me is to spring for a $595 collet style accu chuck (they actually still make one for the Model P)





    If you have any questions let me know. Definitely put new balls in the chuck (I also got them from McMaster) and see what kind of runout you are getting. I read that these 6 ball chucks are very problematic when they are worn. Mine looked only lightly worn when I took it apart but it is being a pain.

    --Steve

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    Heck, dont spend $579 for an adjustable collet chuck.
    They are too easy to make.
    This one on a Sioux, I used an Erickson collet extension. and whipped up the 2 pieces for it.
    The knurl and forward are the parts I made, with the collet extension pressed in.
    You can use any collet style you want

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    I have NO machines or machining experience so buying the Accu-chuck would be the only option to get my machine to consistently chuck the valve with no runout unless anyone has any recommendations, beyond the chuck cleaning and ball replacement I just did, on how else I could repair it to chuck up on center each time without having to keep tapping on the chuck and indicating it. I don't really want a collet style chuck, I prefer the 6 ball to the collet but the runout is my problem...if I get the accu-chuck they guarantee under .0005" runout and it replaces the entire shaft and chuck as 1 piece so there won't be any tolerance stackup. I wish there was some way to adjust runout of the 6 ball setup other than banging on it...
    Last edited by Bondospecial; 10-26-2010 at 12:39 PM.

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    "if I get the accu-chuck they guarantee under .0005" runout and it replaces the entire shaft and chuck as 1 piece so there won't be any tolerance stackup."

    At one time, a company offered an adjustable for run out chuck that I copied in the photo.
    Back then, Sunnen came out with a grinder "$7000" that held run out to .0002"
    The adjustable collet chuck was an alternative, so as an existing grinder could meet .0002" for run out "Honda specs".

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    I found an Erickson single angle collet with proper length, proper diameter shank for only $149 +$25 collets, in MSC and I milled a slot in it for the model P drive pulley. I don't have any machines at home so I drove to my friend's house, who has a 24" drill press with an X-Y table on it and we cut the slot in it fairly easily. I now hold 0.0005" measured runout with a 1939 valve grinding machine. The collet conversion total cost less than $200

    Here's a gallery showing what I did to convert it

    Refacer collet chuck conversion - bondospecial's Photos

    Here is one quick picture of the finished product



    That collet and shank are all one piece and I just got so lucky that I could order it with a 1.25" shank, and the shank was ground to a nice enough finish that with a light polish it was good enough for a bearing surface. I mis-used Erickson's collet in a way that just worked out really well.

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    Nice fix!

    Certainly put new life in that grinder, at reasonable cost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bondospecial View Post
    I found an Erickson single angle collet with proper length, proper diameter shank for only $149 +$25 collets, in MSC and I milled a slot in it for the model P drive pulley. I don't have any machines at home so I drove to my friend's house, who has a 24" drill press with an X-Y table on it and we cut the slot in it fairly easily. I now hold 0.0005" measured runout with a 1939 valve grinding machine. The collet conversion total cost less than $200

    Here's a gallery showing what I did to convert it


    Here is one quick picture of the finished product


    That collet and shank are all one piece and I just got so lucky that I could order it with a 1.25" shank, and the shank was ground to a nice enough finish that with a light polish it was good enough for a bearing surface. I mis-used Erickson's collet in a way that just worked out really well.
    I've designed and had made some for the CV refacers. It will also fit several other models. They all use the ER32 collet system and will hold true to ~.0003" TIR.

    I just reviewed my design drawing and the overall length is 9.250". Is the Erikson part that long? Does it have a through hole running the full length? Mine have the through hole and are tapped at the non-collet end to accept a stop rod for repetitive size valve refacing.

    Thanks,
    Carl

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    Carl, the model P only uses a 6.25" shank. The CV uses a much longer shank. The Erickson collet chuck I used has a 6" long 1.25" shank which still has enough protruding past the bearing block to put the thrust collar on with no problems. This model collet chuck has a through hole and it does have an adjustable stop for the valve stem. But it definitely would be miles too short for the CV machines. But for the model P, all you have to do is machine a keyway and this Erickson collet chuck is otherwise a direct bolt on which I found amazing and very lucky.

    Steve

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bondospecial View Post
    Carl, the model P only uses a 6.25" shank. The CV uses a much longer shank. The Erickson collet chuck I used has a 6" long 1.25" shank which still has enough protruding past the bearing block to put the thrust collar on with no problems. This model collet chuck has a through hole and it does have an adjustable stop for the valve stem. But it definitely would be miles too short for the CV machines. But for the model P, all you have to do is machine a keyway and this Erickson collet chuck is otherwise a direct bolt on which I found amazing and very lucky.

    Steve
    Steve (and other PM abrasive forum readers),

    I did review your pics and know the P chucks are not the same as the CV. I haven't played w/ a P for some time and didn't realize they are that much shorter.

    Most Kwik-Way owners don't realize that the chucks are precision 1.250" OD. That really is good news for the P model and other model owners. I have a shop that specializes in this type of collet spindles. So my design was actually very economical to have made. I've compared results of valves ground on my machine versus several Sunnens. This old Kwik-Way produces results as good or better.

    I've also upgraded my CV to use a Silent Giant brass body externally mounted oil pump. It is quieter, removed the factory system belt vibration, and flows oil more efficiently.

    My next upgrade is the removal of the undercarriage chuck belt drive off the main motor. This design will use a separate modern motor to turn the spindle w/out the factory sliding pulley fiasco.

    Thanks,
    Carl

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    Carl, that sounds like a great project. I agree the sliding pulley design is terrible. I am having a tough time getting it to not bind the pulley when advancing the spindle away from the stone due to the pulley being such a loose fit by design that it wants to cock on the collet shank under the resistance of the belt tension. I polished the collet shank and the ID of the pulley and have everything lubed well. I guess it's really not an issue because during grinding the pulley doesn't contact the extents of the iron boss that limits its travel but it still does bug me. A separate motor would be great to have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bondospecial View Post
    Carl, that sounds like a great project. I agree the sliding pulley design is terrible. I am having a tough time getting it to not bind the pulley when advancing the spindle away from the stone due to the pulley being such a loose fit by design that it wants to cock on the collet shank under the resistance of the belt tension. I polished the collet shank and the ID of the pulley and have everything lubed well. I guess it's really not an issue because during grinding the pulley doesn't contact the extents of the iron boss that limits its travel but it still does bug me. A separate motor would be great to have.
    That pulley issue where it cants on the spindle shaft can sometimes be easily corrected or designed to operate more efficiently. That can be done by having the belt tension and keyway piece adjusted just 'right'. Also, sometimes a modified or new pulley keyway tab will make the difference. Careful filling of the portion of the pulley keyway part that fits in the spindle slot will do it. That part only needs to make make contact on one side to the keyway slot dueing rotation. A spare part can be made w/ hand tools. Give it a try.

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    Does anyone have a picture of the underside of this KWIK WAY Valve face grinder?
    I need to see the routing of the chuck belt.

    Thanks

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    Hi, I just got a kwik-way model p valve grinder. I build small engines and the chuck doesnt fit the small diameter valve stems. I would like to convert it to the collet set up pictured here. Could you guyys tell me the part numbers to the collet holder and type of collets you used. New to this and any help is appreciated thanks.

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    Default HEY, I'm new on here,got original manual

    I got one that looks just like that one,never checked model,mine got a 3 ball chuck,I don't no what they call it,I'll look and see what it is...tomorow.

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    Default Update

    I know this is a really old thread but I continue to get messages from time to time asking what part # Erickson chuck assy I used to replace the problematic 6-ball style chuck on my old Kwik-Way Model P machine.

    This is the chuck assy

    Straight Shank Single Angle Collet Chucks - Manual Collet Chucks | MSCDirect.com

    MSC Part # 85145001, cost $158 now

    It is a direct fit in place of the chuck and shaft on the Kwik Way "super speed" Model P machine, with the caveat that you have to machine a slot for the drive wheel tooth to ride in. The cast iron adjustable bearing blocks that the chuck rides in fits a precision 1.25" shaft perfectly. I polished the shaft of the new chuck assy to make it even smoother but it is a very nice finish as-is. I machined the slot in a 24" drill press with an X-Y table. This chuck then takes any single angle TG-75 style Erickson chuck that you can also get from MSC or wherever.

    If anyone is interested, here is a photo gallery showing some reference dimensions of the old Model P 6 ball chuck, before I removed it

    Refacer chuck dimensions - bondospecial's Photos

    Here is a photo gallery showing the conversion with the Erickson chuck from MSC

    Refacer collet chuck conversion - bondospecial's Photos

    Here is 1 good pic from that gallery showing a comparison of the old 6 ball Kwik Way chuck vs the Erickson style


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    Thanks for posting, I used the same collet holder and got a bunch of tg-75 collets. machined the keyway on my friends bridgeport, and it works great! The machine is really noisy compared to modern machines, so it can be difficult to sneak up on the valve during grinding but it does a great job anyway. And for the amount of money I have invested in this machine I am pretty happy. Thanks again for all info and pictures Matt


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